Who's the worst U.S. president ever?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Give me an example. Striking down, say, the AAA or the NRA was fully within the bounds of the Supreme Court, because both of those entities were unconstitutional, or at least were acting unconstitutionally.

Striking down the CCC is an example. How could hiring workers to build public works, parks, roads, levees, and fire breaks be unconstitutional?

Perhaps not in any single case, but on the other hand, Justice Owen Roberts suddenly started voting with the liberals on the Court, coincidentally right around the time that FDR was threatening to pack the Court. This created a liberal majority and instead of every major New Deal program being struck down, they were upheld instead. I'm sure you've heard of the "switch in time that saved nine" and this was it.

He couldn't have just changed his mind, or have been swayed by public opinion right? IIRC the SCUSA gutted the New Deal in 1937.

So what? In the 1790s the US wasn't shipping war material essentially for free to a belligerent in a major war, and using its navy to attack on sight the warships of the other belligerent, which is what was going on in 1940/1941. The USN was at first radioing the position of German U-boats to the British, and eventually simply began attacking them on sight. Those are hostile acts.

Of course they weren't radioing British positions to the French! Youve been reading too much Science Fiction! American war vessels manuevered in line of battle along with French war vessels in an action against a British fleet. That seems pretty much the equivalent to me.

Duh, Canada was a major belligerent on the side of Great Britain, and a great deal of shipping went between the two nations. We only had a right to keep the U-boats out of our territorial waters, yet by the time we declared war, we had a "security zone" extending over 1200 miles away from the US East Coast. That was both unnecessary for US security, and violated international law, and as far as I'm concerned, that zone was simply in place as a)an intentional provocation to get the Germans to attack, and b)an aid to the British.

Actually I was thinking of the Caribbean, where U boats had begun operating against British shipping coming north from Trinidad, a major oil field. American oil tankers often came into proximity to this area as they sailed east from Texas and then turned north to reach ports on the east coast. Before the war these ships generally kept well away from the US coast in order to minimize the likelihood of running aground. Both British and American tankers passed between Florida and the Bahamas while sailing towards their respective destinations.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin
When all is said and done Bush will likely be in the bottom 1/3 due to his poor economic leadership, poor international relations, and for the lack of equal justic and equal rights under his administration.

Bull.

For one, he not only was re-elected, he is the first Republican in a very long time to carry both houses of Congress as well. He deserves as much credit as Ronald Reagan for making the Republican Party the majority party in the United States.

Regardless of what one thinks of Jackson as a president, he is famous for founding the Democrat Party and making it the majority party in the US until Lincoln.

The ONLY outstanding question mark on Bush's presidency is Iraq. How that comes out in the end will somewhat dictate how history judges his decision to invade.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Ned
For one, he not only was re-elected, he is the first Republican in a very long time to carry both houses of Congress as well. He deserves as much credit blame as Ronald Reagan for making the Republican Party the majority party in the United States.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by GePap
Wait, how can one have slavery AND be tolerant? Sorry, thats, well, NUTS. NO the south was NOT tolerant- saying that the north was racist, which it was, is not the same as saying the south was tolerant- in fact, the south was FAR more racists than the north and remained so for well over a century AFTER the civil war.

I meant that they were alright with blacks around. Most of the north supported slavery, they just didn't want it in the north so they wouldn't have to be around blacks.

[optimus2861]

Originally posted by dejon
http://www.americanpresidents.org/su...erformance.asp

How the hell do they put Bill Clinton below Richard Nixon (not to mention dead last!) when it comes to "Moral Authority"?

[Pax]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

I meant that they were alright with blacks around. Most of the north supported slavery, they just didn't want it in the north so they wouldn't have to be around blacks.

When you say around you mean slaves. I agree with the north being less racist than the south. Even today the North is less racist than the south. I'm from atlanta and lived in Connecticut and RI for 9 years.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ned
Bull.

Your fanboyism aside it is clear that Bush isn't a very good or very bad President. He's exploded the national deficit, responded well to 9/11, but screwed up big in Iraq. He's shifted the tax burden onto the poor, ruined our foreign relations, but got the economy growing modestly. He's damaged civil rights more then any modern president and he's presided over a large increase in corporate corruption and influence peddling.

In short he's not the worst president ever but he is one of the lower tier presidents.

[Apocalypse]

When you say around you mean slaves.

No, in general...which is why at the time there were northern states with laws against black people coming into them. The group in Kansas during it's bloody period that was pro-north had a thing about no blacks being allowed in Kansas in the constitution. It didn't really matter too much since none of those from the South had brought any slaves since they were on the poor side, but still.

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Lincoln, FDR, and LBJ are the three Presidents most guilty of trashing the Constitution.

I second Berz's observation

[RGBVideo]

FDR also was conducting an illegal undeclared war against Germany, and trying to do anything he could to get the US into the biggest bloodbath in history, otherwise known as WW2.

Yeah -- damn that FDR for stopping Nazis from conquering the world.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Your fanboyism aside it is clear that Bush isn't a very good or very bad President. He's exploded the national deficit, responded well to 9/11, but screwed up big in Iraq. He's shifted the tax burden onto the poor, ruined our foreign relations, but got the economy growing modestly. He's damaged civil rights more then any modern president and he's presided over a large increase in corporate corruption and influence peddling.

In short he's not the worst president ever but he is one of the lower tier presidents.

Poor pay no taxes.

Ruined our foreign relations? Bull.

How did he screw up in Iraq?

[Odin]

My short list:

Harding (Corrupt POS and a corporate whore)
Buchanan (Just sat there while the country split in two)
Hoover (Stuck with Trickle-Down economics even as it was failing)
Hayes (Election stealing shenanigans and abandoning the blacks in the south.
Nixon

[Odin]

Oh, and anyone who thinks Lincoln and FDR were bad presidents should be shot.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ruined our foreign relations? Bull.

Cause the US is more beloved around the world than at any other time!

[DinoDoc]

When were we beloved?