Who's the worst U.S. president ever?

[Ted Striker]

RFK - greatest President that never was

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Re: Re: Who's the worst U.S. president ever?

Originally posted by Jaguar
As usual, Kuci is right.

As usual, Jaguar is right

[Zkribbler]

I hesitate to respond to the question because, once the presidency is far enough in the past to gain some perspective, good things can be said about even Presidents I loathed.

Richard Nixon - won the election by lying about his "secret plan" to end the war in Vietnam and indeed, he unnecesarily prolonged it. He was a paranoid weasel who brought about his own justifiable downfall with the Watergate cover-up.

However, if you ever listen to his speeches, they were great! If he'd ever had listened to his own speeches, he'd have been one of the great Presidents of all times. He knew that realism was needed in foreign policy, not the idealism that had dominated foreign policy since Eisenhower. Nixon also opened up China to the West.

Ronald Reagan sent the economy reeling in the wrong direction with his staggering deficits that we're still trying to pay off today, and with his de-regulation of banking and S&Ls, which lead to swindles of a magnitude never seen in the course of human history. For example, more money was lost in the Lincoln S&L scandle than in all the bank robberies in U.S. history combined!

But he restored dignity to the White House and prestige to the U.S. around the world. He also turned plain speaking into a political artform.

I can say -- and have said -- lots of bad things about George W. Bush. But he has exhibited strong leadership qualities when America needed a strong leader, he enjoys campaigning more than anyone I ever seen, he truely believes in what he's saying, and he has a strong moral foundation. I can't say he is the worst President ever, no matter how much I loath his policies.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Broken_Erika
they say how bad clinton was but, his popularity soared even higher after the monica thing, and the economy also soared while he was president, so lets just leave him out.

Clinton was an awesome President.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
RFK - greatest President that never was

[Immortal Wombat]

'sfunny, the way Wilson comes across in the British history curriculum, he was a pretty cool guy. Kept the USA out of the war from '14 to '17 (dubious in Europe, good for America), Moderating Clemenceau's harshness, drawing up his 14 points, winning a Nobel Peace Prize, setting up the League, then getting no support for joining it back home, and dying quickly.

But then the bad things are never really relevant to mention re WWI in Europe.

[Ned]

We have to think of these things as if we were looking back 2000 years, divorced from the passions and politics of the moment. We judge Roman Emperors primarily on how the empire fared under their guidance. In this regard, Commodus, even though judged by history as a moral bastard, has to be judged as a good emperor because the empire did well while he presided. But it is clear that the most damage was done by the likes of Valens and Honorius. Valens because of Andrianople. Honorius because he acted to undermine Rome's security exactly when it needed great leadership.

In US history, I think it is clear that van Buren lead the US into its greatest depression ever. He has to be condemned. Ditto Herbert Hoover. People whose policies actively harm the US must be condemned.

Grant's regime was corrupt, but the country prospered under his presidency. Ditto Clinton. We have to judge these presidents favorably.

Nixon too performed well as president even though he was truly mentally ill, in my view. I think the had paranoia.

In contrast, the country faired poorly under both Ford and Carter, and clearly Johnson was a failure due to his disastrous mismanagement of Vietnam. No other event in US history so traumatized this nation.

So, in order

1. Johnson
2. Van Buren
3. Hoover
4. Ford
5. Carter

[JohnT]

'sfunny, the way Wilson comes across in the British history curriculum, he was a pretty cool guy.

Amazing what one decent decision will do to a mans reputation. One of the things that is rarely mentioned is the mobilization of the American populace for WW1, including the arrests of artists and comedians who did not properly support the war (including the vetting of jokes by the government for "morale" purposes), endless (and legal) harassments of German descendents, and more of the same, making the Patriot Act a joke in comparison.

The fact is, that once the decision was made to go to war, "pacifistic" Wilson turned into a freakin' nut.

[Sava]

No other event in US history so traumatized this nation.

Bush is trying his damndest to beat that with Iraq.

I was reading an old 1964 almanac that my parents have. Some of the newspaper clippings resembled today's so much so that it is scary. Now that the US is at 1,200 dead Americans in Iraq, and with rumblings about Iran, it seems likely that in 10 years, Iraq will resemble Vietnam more so than many people would like to admit.

[Ted Striker]

Actually I'd say the Civil War tramautized this nation more than any other event.

The South was destroyed and to this day people there are still bitter about it.

The casualty count was the highest as a percentage of the population, no other war has even come close. The casualties near the end were so very heavy the war nearly ended with a treaty.

Then we have the whole civil rights issues that spawned from the afteraffects of a freed black population.

Though, Vietnam certainly is a very traumatizing event, and this blunder in Iraq is one of the worst miscalculations ever.

[Sava]

Ted Striker

[Berzerker]

once the decision was made to go to war, "pacifistic" Wilson turned into a freakin' nut.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Actually I'd say the Civil War tramautized this nation more than any other event.

The South was destroyed and to this day people there are still bitter about it.

The casualty count was the highest as a percentage of the population, no other war has even come close. The casualties near the end were so very heavy the war nearly ended with a treaty.

Then we have the whole civil rights issues that spawned from the afteraffects of a freed black population.

Though, Vietnam certainly is a very traumatizing event, and this blunder in Iraq is one of the worst miscalculations ever.

Let's be honest. The Civil War traumatized the South, permanently we hope. It unified the North and made the United States what it is today. The Civil War transformed the US to a better place.

Nothing positive can be said about Vietnam.

[Ted Striker]

Of course it had positive effects.


However in terms of tramautizing the nation, Vietnam doesn't even come close.

Half of the nation was destroyed, families were literally fighting against each other, roving gangs of marauders roamed the plains and burned down entire cities.

Vietnam was halfway around the world, and didn't even come close the amount of casualties that the Civil War did.

[Pekka]

I'd say US vs Finland semifinals in hockey World Cup 04 traumatized US more than anything else