Land of the Free

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


First of all, do you admit that the majority of the people oppose gay marriage?

Secondly, you are very right. Why should it be right for society to restrict marriage to one man and one woman? Why doesn't society recognise all partnerships, of any sort on par with marriage? Because the recognition of marriage has benefits for the society that can only be found within the union of a man and a woman.

First of all, I don't give a flying f*** how the majority of people would vote. It shouldn't be a popularity contest.

Secondly, your belief that society benefits ONLY from a male-female marriage is a load of horse****.

Is there a thirdly you'd like to drag out?

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
True, but this is no longer about equal rights, but rather, whether one group of people ought to recieve special benefits not accorded to others.

You can't win with this line of reasoning. Either gay marriages don't afford special benefits not accorded to others, or the status quo affords benefits not accorded to others. Which is it?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Do gays have to ride the back of the bus?

Are there washrooms for gay, and not-gay?

Are there schools for the gay, and not gay?

Where is this Jim Crow? We have no Jim Crow here in Canada. To compare the two, is to grossly misrepresent the situation in the US, where black men could be hung for violating Jim Crow laws. Where is the equivalent here?



True, but this is no longer about equal rights, but rather, whether one group of people ought to recieve special benefits not accorded to others.

Comrade Tassadar beat me to this because I was eating dinner. And he got it right.


You were either deliberately trying to make a lame attempt to distort the point of my analogy, or, you made an honest mistake in misunderstanding my analogy.

If you misunderstood it, then either you were not completely alert to the point, or you have poor argumentation skills.


So which one was it -- deliberate distortion, or an honest mistake?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
So which one was it -- deliberate distortion, or an honest mistake?

We've been on this merry-go-round enough time to know that BK is a bigot and doesn't just misunderstand.

[MrFun]

I know -- but it would be nice if I could corner him to being on record, on choosing the right one among the two.

[Ben Kenobi]

First of all, I don't give a flying f*** how the majority of people would vote. It shouldn't be a popularity contest.

So you don't care for parliament at all? Why not abolish it altogether, and appoint a King?

Secondly, your belief that society benefits ONLY from a male-female marriage is a load of horse****.

I hear denials. I hear accusations. What I don't see is a cogent counterargument.

Plus this is a strawman. I am saying that society benefits in a unique way from traditional marriage. This does not say there are no benefits from other partnerships, but rather, not all partnerships provide the same benefits to society.

[Guynemer]

Hooray for Canada.

Lord, I miss living right across the border from an honest-to-goodness 21st Century civilization.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Plus this is a strawman.

Like the strawman you conjured up in response to my analogy, right?

[Ben Kenobi]

Either gay marriages don't afford special benefits not accorded to others, or the status quo affords benefits not accorded to others. Which is it?

The latter. Not all discrimination is wrong, you'll see that ameliorative benefits are specifically provided for under section 15 of the Canadian charter.

[Ben Kenobi]

You were either deliberately trying to make a lame attempt to distort the point of my analogy, or, you made an honest mistake in misunderstanding my analogy.

You made a poor analogy. Jim Crow hanged blacks. Where are gay people being hung by the rednecks you so despise?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You made a poor analogy. Jim Crow is not Canada. Gay people are not hung for 'getting beyond themselves'.

You didn't answer my question. You're continuing to make the distortion by ignoring the real point of the analogy, and instead, claiming that the point was that Jim Crow laws is the same, exact experience that gays have in United States, Canada, and elsewhere.



I give you 2.3 out of 10 for failure to make a more clever dodge of my question.

[Gibsie]

Just out of interest, will you be using the "why should I have to pay for their marriage benefits?" line in the next one of these threads, or are there any examples of these costly benefits that you can provide? You've got me curious, don't ignore me now please, you can ignore me after the example :P

[Ben Kenobi]

Can you just give me one example of a spousal benefit that the taxpayers provide for, just so I can get my head around it, please?

Gibsie:

Not a problem.

Sorry for the delay.

One benefit, spouses get, is to share their household income with each other, which allows them to reduce their income tax.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why do persist on being such a bigot Ben, it doesn't make any sense? Who are you to stand in judgement?

Where have I called any of the Poly crew a sinner?

[MrFun]

One more time, Ben . . . . . .




did you make an honest mistake with my analogy, or did you deliberately attempt to distort the point of the analogy?