Workers at Colorado Walmart to Unionize?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by David Floyd And, as has been pointed out, unions have been notoriously corrupt.

And corporations haven't? Power corrupts. (or gives existing corruption a bigger platform to do damage)

Originally posted by David Floyd But yes, as a Libertarian, I support the right of workers to unionize - just as strongly as I support the right of employers to fire their asses for being demanding little ****s.

I agree. We agree on who has what rights, but we differ in that after recognizing that you are rooting for the employers while I am rooting for the workers.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


And corporations haven't? Power corrupts. (or gives existing corruption a bigger platform to do damage)

Well, Davy is claiming that he deplores both, corruption of unions and corruption of corporations.


(not that I agree with his argument)

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


That would be the Wage and Hour Division of the US Department of Labor. 1-866-4US-WAGE is the number, IIRC.

Little thing a comrade forwarded me:

Increase in denial of overtime by companies

The Labor Department issued a report November 24
revealing that complaints by workers over denial of
overtime rose to the highest level in four years while
penalties for violations and awards of back pay fell.
The department’s Wage and Hour Division received
31,786 complaints in 2004, compared with 31,123 in
2003.

The department’s fines, however, amounted to $9
million, down from $10 million in 2003. It also
collected $196.7 million in back wages, also down from
$212.5 million for the previous year. The number of
workers receiving back pay declined from 342,358 in
2003 to 288,296 this year. New rules, put in place by
the Bush administration, took effect last August and
data is not yet available, but their purpose was to
frustrate workers attempting to file suit to recover
overtime pay.

[Az]

Meanwhile, over here, retailers' workers' unions have agreed to cooperate against the managements of the retailers.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Greed and selfishness are not necessarily bad things,

Oh yes they are. In every civilization since the dawn of man, they have been considered evil. You're just trying to rationalize your evil because you don't want to admit being evil.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I am more concerned with how well business is functioning than I am with the comfort level of employees, who, by the way, make FAR more in the US than they would in many other countries in the world, even adjusted for cost of living requirements.

We also pay far more than people in other parts of the world to live. You cannot make enough money to live off of on Wal-Mart wages in most of this country, not by yourself, anyway.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Free market
Hippie communes in a free market
Evil corporations in a free market

I've fgured out what you are!!!!!

You're a free-market socialist!

[OzzyKP]

Free market socialism

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Oh yes they are. In every civilization since the dawn of man, they have been considered evil. You're just trying to rationalize your evil because you don't want to admit being evil.

Greed and selfishness are simply the dark words used to describe the same motivations that describe the more nobler aspects called ambition, motivation and pride.

[Az]

BAM.

[OzzyKP]

Sadly nothing on Wikipedia about free market socialism.

[Ramo]

As I said, you really ought to take a look at anarchism. Particularly the syndicalist variant.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Azazel
BAM.

Spam.

[David Floyd]

Ozzy,

Well that's the genious of a free market. A variety of different business models can co-exist and compete. We don't have a centralized system saying only millionaires can run businesses, thank goodness. I'd love to see a more diversified market where some businesses are run by employees with some profit sharing system, others are traditional strict hierarchies, and heck through in some communes too. That'd be wonderful.

I agree that people should have the right to form such communes, etc., I just don't think it's a very good idea. But maybe I'll be proved wrong - I don't care, so long as no government restrictions on freedom are involved in the process.

Plus David, from a pure business outlook. A company that treats its employees the best will attract the best employees and be a better company for it. I think a company like that would be competitive. Though if not, that's something the market can work out on its own.

To a certain extent, sure. At the same time, though, a company that is losing money is not going to attract good, long-term employees who are motivated to work hard, because they know that no matter how good the benefits may be at first, they can't last if the company's is constantly in the red.

I agree. We agree on who has what rights, but we differ in that after recognizing that you are rooting for the employers while I am rooting for the workers.

I'm rooting for what I believe is most beneficial to myself. I'll elaborate if you want, but remember for a second that I currently work in retail management

Imran,

Some employers can be real *******s and try to do illegal things against their workers. Not every person has enough money to hire a lawyer for that.

Then again, some of those "illegal things" you speak of are thing that I don't think the government should be involved with in the first place, so I don't really care

chegitz,

Oh yes they are. In every civilization since the dawn of man, they have been considered evil.

Yes, they have, and much of the reason for that has been religion, by the way. But ultimately, though, all selfishness is, is a primary concern for your own interests. Concern for your own interests can and DOES include doing things to help others in many situations, but your motivation is the long term benefit to yourself. I fail to see anything wrong with that.

You cannot make enough money to live off of on Wal-Mart wages in most of this country, not by yourself, anyway.

I guess that depends on whether or not you buy Nikes, designer shoes, gold-plated rims, and big stereo systems, or if you just buy the basics. There's also nothing wrong with getting a second job.

[Az]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Spam.

yeah, so stop doing it.