Workers at Colorado Walmart to Unionize?

[Provost Harrison]

Oh and Azazel, Molly Bloom, can you two get a room or something? *puke*

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by molly bloom
The poor were regarded as an underclass, whose degradation was largely their own fault; frequently it was stated that God wished them to be poor; they were a semi-class of probable criminal tendencies.
Victorians distinguished between the "deserving" and the "undeserving" poor. Widows, orphans, old people and those whose sickness rendered them incapable of work were regarded as deserving and could receive help through the system of Poor Houses, degrading though these were. The other poor or unemployed were regarded as undeserving and, without any social support system in place, were left entirely to their own devices.

Acquired wealth, on the other hand, was commonly seen as a visible sign of virtue: the poor were bad, the rich were good - it was a natural order."

I'm quite sure this quite well reflects David's opinion of USA's working class of today.

[Az]

Kibbutzim don't turn you on?

[Provost Harrison]

I don't care what you want to do with molly bloom's Kibbutz

[Az]

I don't care what you want to do with molly bloom's Kibbutz

I wonder what body part you meant by that... in any case... BACK ON TOPIC!

Hurricane:
The working class are the 80% of the population who are dumber than him, of course.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I find the type of middle class ignorance professed by David Floyd et al not only to be extremely irritating but dangerous. To support heavy attacks on the working class (which his policies are tantamount to quite directly) from an academic standpoint shows an alarming degree of naivete...

Strawman .


David Floyd never attacked the working class . Neither did he attack the concept of unions . What he attacked was the idea that Government has to give unions some special power , and that you can't fire or hire according to your will if there is a union involved . You cannot fire someone if he/they plan to unionise .

Unions , AFAIK , he is completely fine with . Government power handed to unions is a big no-no in his book .


And just in case you hadn't got it yet - I have the same stance .

[Az]

Government power is not handed to unions. The law protects, or should protect, unions.

Anyway, I am glad that you feel that the little people should know their place.

[aneeshm]

Azazel - please do not troll . I don't think anything of nay people , be they ( remember , you sterotyped them , not me ) little or big .

I have nothing against the government protecting unions if any of their rights , like the right to life , property , free association , protection from injury , etc , are being violated . If some owner sends thugs to beat up the unionisers , the government should definitely intervene .

But please tell me why the law should protect the union's interests ( the ones which go beyond their rights ) . It may not be in the union's interest to have it's members fired , but protection from firing does not seem to be aright to me , by any stretch of any twisted ideology . Indeed , such "protection" actually violates the right to free association of the employer .

[Az]

What do you mean by "them"? I AM a minimum wage earner.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yep. I believe that unions tend to be bad for business, and quite frankly, I am more concerned with how well business is functioning than I am with the comfort level of employees, who, by the way, make FAR more in the US than they would in many other countries in the world, even adjusted for cost of living requirements.

Told you so...

In any case, I am glad that D. Floyd's ( somewhat rabid) hatered for unions isn't widespread.... I was actually expecting an all-out assault on them.

Most people appreciate the successes unions have gained. Some employers can be real *******s and try to do illegal things against their workers. Not every person has enough money to hire a lawyer for that.

[Az]

Imran

That's wisdom reaching the levels of Ted, my man.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ted Striker

[Az]

Hear, Hear!

Ted Striker

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Ozzy,

Whether worker run businesses can run it well enough to compete in a free market or not is another question. But I'm all for giving it a go.

I'm not. I strongly oppose populism in every form, because I realize that at least 80% of the population is stupider than me, and I don't want tens of millions of stupid people running things.

I'd much rather have business-savvy millionaires running businesses than ignorant blue collar workers who are more concerned about the welfare of each individual employee than they are about business needs/production.

Well that's the genious of a free market. A variety of different business models can co-exist and compete. We don't have a centralized system saying only millionaires can run businesses, thank goodness. I'd love to see a more diversified market where some businesses are run by employees with some profit sharing system, others are traditional strict hierarchies, and heck through in some communes too. That'd be wonderful.

Plus David, from a pure business outlook. A company that treats its employees the best will attract the best employees and be a better company for it. I think a company like that would be competitive. Though if not, that's something the market can work out on its own.

Free market
Hippie communes in a free market
Evil corporations in a free market

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by David Floyd Greed and selfishness are not necessarily bad things, after all. The connotations of those words just lead some to think that they are.

Well then we'll have to agree to disagree.