Ukraine

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Yukoshenko won a substantial majority. AFAICT no one changed their votes - thats exactly the majority he WOULD have won in the previous election, had it been fair.

Oh, don't you understand, LOTM? The Ukrainians voted under the influence. It was not a free election!

[chequita guevara]

Why isn't this thread locked?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
The third round of the election was not only illegal, but also not free. How can it be free if one of the candidates had been publically humiliated before the vote, if the West let the Ukrainians know that their country would join the rogue states should they vote the wrong way. No wonder, many of the original Yanukovich supporters now voted for Yushchenko.

Congratulations, you won. Just don't pretend this has anything to do with democracy or with the rule of law.

Funny how 20,000 election monitors say otherwise. You sir are foolish beyond proportions. The third election was not only fair, it was a great success. Yanukovich broke the law by promoting illegal activities in the last vote, which allowed the illegal counting of several million invalid votes. The one candidate that was publically humiliated before the vote was Yushchenko. He was poisoned and his face was disfigured. Most likely the Russians did it. Your views contradict democracy and your leader has been in violation of it. Maybe you Russians should take a moment of self reflection on the massacres you are committing in Chechnya. I at one point supported it until I heard stories about the massacres committed. And these aren't isolated cases, these are widespread. So please before you talk about democracy and the rule of law, have some self reflection.

[lord of the mark]

the mods arent sure how many posts are in it. Some folks called for a recount, and ......

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Oh, don't you understand, LOTM? The Ukrainians voted under the influence.

Everyone votes under the influence. Stop acting like this is special. Politics doesn't exist in a vaccuum.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


Oh, don't you understand, LOTM? The Ukrainians voted under the influence. It was not a free election!

If you are talking about the second election you are right. The Ukraineans were coercied by the Russians. In this election, that coercion was removed when your leader, Putin, just shut his mouth.

[The Vagabond]

Ukrainians should be congratulated. Now they'll be ruled by the husband of a State Department employee. Directives from the State Department can now be transmitted when in bed, right when man is most receptive.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Everyone votes under the influence. Stop acting like this is special. Politics doesn't exist in a vaccuum.

Or under influence. Is vagabond aware that "under the influence" in english (or at least in American English) means under the influence of alcohol?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Ukrainians should be congratulated. Now they'll be ruled by the husband of a State Department employee. Directives from the State Department can now be transmitted when in bed, right when man is most perceptive.

a former employee, IIUC, and not one of any high level of influence. As someone whos worked with state department employees, including ones in the sections that maintain equipment, store diplomats belongings while overseas, etc, I can tell you State Dept employee doesnt necessarily = decisionmaker.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Ukrainians should be congratulated. Now they'll be ruled by the husband of a State Department employee. Directives from the State Department can now be transmitted when in bed, right when man is most perceptive.

That's better then being ruled directly by Moscow, by a man who has Soviet styled economic beliefs. Yanukovich represents the corruption, and represents Kuchma. Kuchma was better gone. You need to grow up and learn that your country cannot direct other countries anymore.

[Heresson]

The attitude towards Ukraine improved substantially after all this mess.
Anyway, I hope the result will be positive for Ukraine.
And I believe one more democratic neighbour is not bad for Russia either...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


I call for investigation by MIT (massachusets institute for tauroscatology). Serb, you really expect people to believe this crap? Or is this what you read in your "free" press?

Seriously, link, please (and none of those funny personal pages of PanSlavist reactionaries that you once posted - the guy asserted that Lithuania willingly joined USSR in 1940 )

Keep your BS for Yankees or Euros. I know what's going on there. If everything is so perfect there, then how the hell can you explain Russian exodus from Baltic states. Hundreds of thousands are expelled from there. Russians that stayed are treated as crap- no citezenship, no basic human rights.

If you're sincere posting this, you, sir, are an idiot.

**** you too.

You are right in a sense that we need allies to ensure our security (the threat to which historically comes from the east...) We chose an alliance of free, wealthy, liberal & democratic nations as a couterweight to the unstable, corrupt and expansionist Russia (with the blood of our fathers and grandfathers on its hands.. and to add insult to injury, denying this fact). VERY EASY CHOICE IF YOU ASK ME!

Biatches, if you ask me. Allies means partners, it means both sides can benefit from cooperation. The west can offer security for you, what can you offer for the west except your body? You think NATO desperately needs your single motorized division to protect Berlin or London? They are ready to protect you, but they do nothing for free. So, what kind of "allies" you are talking about? 'Biatches' is the word.
Have a nice night.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Everyone votes under the influence. Stop acting like this is special. Politics doesn't exist in a vaccuum.

Well, one of the candidates publically demolished, another candidate commiting a coup before the vote, the people blackmailed by the most powerful block of foreign states... I would say that that was a special influence indeed.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Serb
You think NATO desperately needs your single motorized division to protect Berlin or London? They are ready to protect you, but they do nothing for free. .

The Baltics already paid. After being betrayed in 1939, and having been invoked as captive nations for 40 years, the West couldnt very well turn them down for NATO membership.

[Giancarlo]

You Russians should seriously shut up and self analyze your own country before you go attacking Ukraine and other baltic countries about democracy. You are far from a democratic state and in recent weeks, and days even, I have grown critical of Putin. His personally backed candidate in Ukraine had something to do with the poisoning of the opposition. I don't call poisoning people democratic. I suspect the Russian government had something to do with it. The west can offer extraordinary economic growth and jobs for Ukraine. Russia can offer nothing but economic stagnation.