Dear IE, I'm Leaving You For Good

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Blake
I have met a few people vehemently opossed to tabs and they claim that the way WinXP (and some *nix windows managers) stacks windows in the taskbar is just as good - but it isn't. You can't change between websites anywhere nearly as quickly. I think in reality they are just scared of non-M$.

I use firefox and I HATE tabs. It's much easier to hit things in the taskbar because it's a bigger thing to hit, so you don't have to be as precise.

[Q Classic]

i prefer opera's implementation of tabs over firefox's default implementation. ctrl-tab switches, you can move them, detach them, drag them between windows...among other things.

[Zulu Elephant]

The tabs are growing on me.

And I think the Mozilla tabs are bigger than than a tab on the taskbar

[Asher]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i prefer opera's implementation of tabs over firefox's default implementation. ctrl-tab switches, you can move them, detach them, drag them between windows...among other things.

Ctrl-Tab switches in Firefox, and all of the stuff you mentioned is implemented with TBE (TabBrowser Extension).

[Q Classic]

i still don't understand the benefit of adding in an extension to do simple tab manipulation.

i understand modularity, i like it... but the things i mentioned about tabs seem so basic that it's a shame they're not in the default package.

same thing with session saving. i don't see why it has to be an extension, rather than being built in... ( 'course, i've been spoiled by opera, and to a lesser extent, kde saving sessions ( kde is worse than fluxbox... )--and even windows resuming open explorer windows ).

i understand why mouse gestures aren't part of the default package... but that doesn't mean i have to like it.

[alva]

Asher, that picture IS cuuuuute.

I use firefox and I HATE tabs. It's much easier to hit things in the taskbar because it's a bigger thing to hit, so you don't have to be as precise.

It does take some getting used too, I admit.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i still don't understand the benefit of adding in an extension to do simple tab manipulation.

i understand modularity, i like it... but the things i mentioned about tabs seem so basic that it's a shame they're not in the default package.

Because they add needless overhead that most people don't want or use, and the people who do want it tend to be "power users" which can easily install extensions.

Personally I don't see the point, I like having it all in one window and never reorder tabs...

same thing with session saving. i don't see why it has to be an extension, rather than being built in... ( 'course, i've been spoiled by opera, and to a lesser extent, kde saving sessions ( kde is worse than fluxbox... )--and even windows resuming open explorer windows ).

It could be built in with an option, but I'd hope it'd be disabled by default. That's one thing I never liked about Opera.

If I wanted my session to persist, I leave the window open.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
There are people browsing with Lynx??!?

Hey, it's the only one working on my C-64...





But don't forget Thunderbird!

[Q Classic]

Because they add needless overhead that most people don't want or use, and the people who do want it tend to be "power users" which can easily install extensions.

Personally I don't see the point, I like having it all in one window and never reorder tabs...

it's basic tab management. how much overhead could it be?

and i do like reordering tabs: during the process of browsing many threads and comics, and i come across a few interesting articles, i want to move them to the end so i can continue to just click along down the line to read threads rather than having to jump around.

Or, say, i want to do a spot of development: push one tab that's already open into another window, so i can have two concurrent windows while keeping the same tab history for each.

[Q Classic]

i'm not saying firefox is a bad browser. i'm saying that opera's implementation of tabbing is better.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
it's basic tab management. how much overhead could it be?

A noticable one. Install TBE and compare performance, it is a bit slower. That's the main reason it's not being merged into the default install.

Or, say, i want to do a spot of development: push one tab that's already open into another window, so i can have two concurrent windows while keeping the same tab history for each.

Sounds nice, but a very rare requirement. One that would be best served with an extension like TBE, which a developer would surely know how to install.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i'm not saying firefox is a bad browser. i'm saying that opera's implementation of tabbing is better.

And I disagree. Opera is a browser with a ton of features, which I never use. It felt like a monolithic monster, even though it was fairly responsive.

A minority people require the Opera-like tab management, and those same people are likely to know how to install the extension to get the Opera-like tab management. I don't see this as a failing, but as a strength of Firefox...keep the useless stuff to most people out of the product by default.

Firefox is the antithesis of Opera, which stupid puts everything and the kitchen sink into a single product.

[Alex]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i still don't understand the benefit of adding in an extension to do simple tab manipulation.

i understand modularity, i like it... but the things i mentioned about tabs seem so basic that it's a shame they're not in the default package.

same thing with session saving. i don't see why it has to be an extension, rather than being built in...

OPERA RULEZ!

[Asher]

There's a reason Opera's been around for ages and still a small marketshare.

[Q Classic]

A noticable one. Install TBE and compare performance, it is a bit slower. That's the main reason it's not being merged into the default install.

and that could just be sloppy coding, not the concept itself.

Sounds nice, but a very rare requirement. One that would be best served with an extension like TBE, which a developer would surely know how to install.

just because i have to install it doesn't mean i want to install it. if i want the feature--a feature which is, when you get right down to it, quite basic and simple--and it doesn't add any real noticeable overhead (and it doesn't in opera), why not incorporate it by default? i understand that such comments lead down the dark path towards bloatware; however, simple, basic tab management isn't "bloat" so to speak.

you're asking me to be satisfied with xp home and tweakui when i could very well be using xp pro and tweakui.

And I disagree. Opera is a browser with a ton of features, which I never use. It felt like a monolithic monster, even though it was fairly responsive.

it's quite responsive. i'll agree on the annoyance of say, the dumb mail client...

A minority people require the Opera-like tab management, and those same people are likely to know how to install the extension to get the Opera-like tab management.

...but i disagree about the tab management.

I don't see this as a failing, but as a strength of Firefox...keep the useless stuff to most people out of the product by default.

the active bookmarks/automatic RSS feeds are pretty useless to me. i'll wager that most people don't know about them, or how to use them, and won't be using them at all.
and they're about as useful as basic tab management. strange, that.

Firefox is the antithesis of Opera, which stupid puts everything and the kitchen sink into a single product.

i like how session saving isn't even an extension you can find on mozdev--you have to google for it, and if you didn't know what it was called, you'd be SOL.
asher, i'm not talking whether or not opera is superior to firefox overall. i'm stating that there are two features that are relatively basic and wouldn't add too much to the code or overhead, and that opera's implementation of it and firefox's lack of it is still an issue.

mouse gestures, i'll grant--that's an acquired taste. but session saving to deal with random crashes, power outages, or hell, even reboots, and simple tab manipulation... i don't see why they aren'i included.