Rugby - Running Out of Titles

[Havak]

Oh yes sorry - Grewcock escaped censure totally. Free to stamp on French heads on Sunday now.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Oh yes sorry - Grewcock escaped censure totally. Free to stamp on French heads on Sunday now.

I don't think his act was intentional... a bit clumsy though.

[Havak]

He is starting to get a reputation for that clumsiness - which is a bit of a problem.

[Havak]

Oh and Finbar I hope Italy record a thumping victory on Saturday. I suspect they might - arrogance always comes before a fall for Wales and there has been plenty of arrogance from them this week so far.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Oh and Finbar I hope Italy record a thumping victory on Saturday. I suspect they might - arrogance always comes before a fall for Wales and there has been plenty of arrogance from them this week so far.

But the Welsh had support from, um, unexpected quarters. You might fancy making such a bet yourself if it guarantees a win this weekend! And you, too, Tamerlin!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
No need. I think you have it bang on with the coach aspect. The team will not be named until Wednesday now as he waits on certain injuries but something damning has happened – Ollie Smith has not been called to training this week – but Henry Paul has - and Tait has been kept.

Mmmmm. There's an argument for youth - I've put the argument myself - but not Henry Paul! I refuse to believe there isn't someone better.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


I don't think his act was intentional... a bit clumsy though.

I think you're being extremely generous. The player he booted was clearly visible to him. He claims he was stepping over the ruck. His foot movement was up and forward, straight at the player. Given his lengthy history of foul play with the boot, I'm amazed he was given the benefit of the doubt.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar


I think you're being extremely generous. The player he booted was clearly visible to him. He claims he was stepping over the ruck. His foot movement was up and forward, straight at the player. Given his lengthy history of foul play with the boot, I'm amazed he was given the benefit of the doubt.

You might be right, I don't know the past of the said player so I can only judge about what I have seen.

About the supporter betting on an intimate part of his anatomy, someone sent me a mail with the information this afternoon but I found the story so stupid that I thought it was a hoax. Sometimes reality beats fiction.

Buena note...

[Havak]

Yeah I saw that Taffy fan story in the press here - wonder if it is true? Certainly shows the sanity of the average Welsh fan?

I take it you have checked out the BBC boards - one win by two points and the welsh fans are talking of a long term return to parity between England and the Celts. I think thats an impressively blinkered view of the reality of the difference between the countries myself - it's a hard period for us but it is likely to be finite. They are about as good as they will ever get - and I still maintain they were awful on Saturday too as any competnet side would have stuffed us the way we played.

There is an argument for youth - though perhaps Tait is just a little too young. Wilko was already far physically stronger when he debuted at 17. Ollie Smith = 22, Henry Paul = approx 30. So where is the sense even on that level? Paul has failed at every asking - Tamerlin will remember Paris in 2002 when Paul bottled it. Why risk him against France again?

Grewcock has had disciplinary problems throughout his career. His record of cards is far worse than a certain retired locks for example. I hear only three English players have ever been red carded - and Shaw and Grewcock are two of those. I still think that was unfair on Shaw but it remains in the books.

The other two locks in the squad are not impressing me this season. I'd pull either of the two from the Friday A game instead to partner Kay - and yes you guessed it they are Brown and Deacon.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Yeah I saw that Taffy fan story in the press here - wonder if it is true? Certainly shows the sanity of the average Welsh fan?

Or shows the perils of gambling.

I take it you have checked out the BBC boards - one win by two points and the welsh fans are talking of a long term return to parity between England and the Celts. I think thats an impressively blinkered view of the reality of the difference between the countries myself - it's a hard period for us but it is likely to be finite. They are about as good as they will ever get - and I still maintain they were awful on Saturday too as any competnet side would have stuffed us the way we played.

Objective opinion. I don't know that they're as good as they're going to get. They should have won by a lot more and need more than their current running game. Yes, any competent team would have beaten you. I'd say they're on the improve while you can only - and must - improve. You've got greater playing depth and a better set up, so you should, down the track, pay them back with interest. But, under this coach, it will probably take longer than it should. I know little about the man but he doesn't even look like a thinker!

There is an argument for youth - though perhaps Tait is just a little too young. Wilko was already far physically stronger when he debuted at 17. Ollie Smith = 22, Henry Paul = approx 30. So where is the sense even on that level? Paul has failed at every asking - Tamerlin will remember Paris in 2002 when Paul bottled it. Why risk him against France again?

Yes, Tait probably is too young, and too physically slight. Henson ate him. BTW, why haven't I seen Henson before? Obviously I have, but I haven't noticed him. He can play. The Paul situation is ridiculous. A nail in the coach's coffin.

Grewcock has had disciplinary problems throughout his career. His record of cards is far worse than a certain retired locks for example.

J**** was rough and tough. Grewcock, I think, has a screw loose. No one will convince me his boot was accidental. I've watched it many times. The trajectory of his boot had nothing to do with stepping over the ruck. If it did, his foot was going to land ten feet the other side of the ruck.

The other two locks in the squad are not impressing me this season. I'd pull either of the two from the Friday A game instead to partner Kay - and yes you guessed it they are Brown and Deacon.

Frankly, apart from Kay's game on the weekend, I haven't seen an England lock worth a pinch since J**** retired.

[Havak]

And I'll come back to all of that this afternoon but for now some breaking news:

England coach makes five changes
Andy Robinson has made five changes from the side that lost to Wales for England's Six Nations match against France at Twickenham on Sunday.
Olly Barkley comes into the centres and Harry Ellis takes over at scrum-half, while Lewis Moody, Martin Corry and Phil Vickery return in the pack.

Vickery is in for the injured Julian White and Barkley replaces Mathew Tait, who is dropped from the 22.

In the back row Leicester players Moody and Corry are both fit again.

I'll comment on this later too.

[Havak]

Or shows the perils of gambling.

or the dangers of bravado not backed by intellect?

But, under this coach, it will probably take longer than it should. I know little about the man but he doesn't even look like a thinker!

I think you have it right. Long term these youngsters are going to click for England – and sometime, some when a Celtic side will get a walloping again. Probably Wales at HQ next year.

He does worry me Robinson. Amazing blind spots.

The Paul situation is ridiculous. A nail in the coach's coffin.

Without full squad details yet to hand it looks like he has not been selected. Common sense may have prevailed.

*edit* No such thing. Paul makes the bench!!!

Is Robinson a total ******???

Paul on the bench – Smith wasted in an A game? Even Tait again was a better option.

You haven’t seen Henson because he is very new to the setup. He figured in the autumn but Saturday was his first six nations game. He is 23 and this last year has improved immeasurably. His victim Tait turned 19 on Sunday – I bet that was a happy birthday!

The trajectory of his boot had nothing to do with stepping over the ruck. If it did, his foot was going to land ten feet the other side of the ruck.

Having seen his club game disciplinary record after the Dallaglio stamping incident I cannot argue with you. It’s a poor record.

Frankly, apart from Kay's game on the weekend, I haven't seen an England lock worth a pinch since J**** retired.

I am not arguing with you here - simply because you haven't seen the best we have now. I complained last year when the combination became Grewcock-Borthwick with an out of form Kay as backup (and he now looks to be back to form thank goodness). The Bath combination has never impressed me, Tigers bias aside. Shaw was injured and has never really got back after the summer tour then killed his career (and injured him again by the by). When Jonno retired I personally would have gone straight to the young uns from the A side I named earlier - with Kay mentoring. But that is clearly just me.

Okay my thoughts on the squad. Great to see Corry fit. You saw his dislocation didn’t you Finbar? He should really add some go forward as indeed should Moody. Vickery for White is for injury – time for Phil to pretend it is five years ago. And Ellis for Dawson is sensible, as is Moody for Hazell. And the fact that Worseley shuffles to blindside kicking Jones out the 22 altogether makes my day.

The downs? Paul obviously. Isn’t six chances enough to know any answers? Noon at 13 – strange choice, particularly after the coach calls Smith “an explosive talent” on Monday and those words will never trouble Noon’s CV I suspect.

If England win it will be the old way – through route one. But our midfield is under huge threat from the French combo. Hmm – could be a case of who plays the worst on the day. After all France were worse against Scotland than we were against Wales – I dare Tamerlin to deny that!

Oh yes and finally for Ravagon’s benefit Steve Walsh sucks as a ref – but for once is not responsible for England losing – that was all their own work.

[Havak]

Gatland is leaving Wasps a year early at his own request. With them out of Europe and in danger of not making the play offs he seems to have caught a touch of the "Sir Clive's".

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
... I dare Tamerlin to deny that!

I won't, I hate to say this but I am often sad when I see France playing since a few years. A good game at times is not enough.

[Havak]

Having lost 7 from 10 tests I very much understand where you are coming from. Rebuilding is painful - and not helped by a coach who makes bizarre decisions such as Steve Thompson retaining his starting place.

The trouble is France have a settled side that on paper should be formidable - performances like NZ and Scotland simply should not come from them?

Good to see Guscott in his BBC column saying Smith should be there - at least it means I am not alone thinking he is a far better choice than Noon. Here is hoping Smithy gets a hat trick in the A fixture so Robinson cannot ignore him again.