Tweet
Well in fifty years when we don't need their oil for energy needs half as much as we do now and their tracts of sand revert to nothing but that and we leave them to their own devices, we will see if their problems solve themselves.
-
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously. -
And this, gentlemen, is how Isreal and Palestine got into the mess they're in.Originally posted by Sava
If my hometown, Chicago, gets nuked... I will do everything in my power... everything humanly possible, to nuke Mecca. I will buy uranium on the black market, give myself cancer building a bomb, just to set it off in the Muslim holy city. I will make it my life's work to help hunt down the terrorists. I might even join the army.
You simply can't make things better by going and killing a ton of civilians on the other side. You only enflame anger and make it harder to create a real difference. Proposing to nuke Mecca is punishing a population that isn't at fault for the crimes of another. In fact, this is one of the few things where you can really make a comparison to Nazi Germany and the treatment of the Jews. Death rights can certainly be similar if you nuke a major city, and you are blaming problems on those that are not responsible and killing said unresponsible group en masse.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Rather, a number of big ones do and we aren't helping the ones not directly related to us; for when we support crappy governments it doesn't help them overcome their own crappy governments.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
But many of the big ones do.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Oh, right...and they're doing really well. I mean, we only give them a third or so of their GDP every year for free, right? And they live and a peaceful and safe country thanks to those policies, right?Originally posted by muxec
Patriot Act is really good and democratic. Israel lives under much stricter version of Patriot Act and people agree that even stricter security is needed. Indeed some people say that Shabak's (General Security Services Agency) rights most be limited but most agree that curent situation is OK.
What, they don't? Drat.
I guess we can't look to any country in Europe for help, afterall Briton, for example, has been absolutely destroyed by IRA and cowed to its every whim. What's that? It didn't you say....drat.
But you acknowledge they are not immortal. Sons and daughters do not have to follow mothers and fathers, nor are the latter bound to their current beliefs and feelings inexorably. People and groups can change.Originally posted by muxec
The only way to do so is exterminating several groups of others. Muslim fanatics will always hate USA for richness, for atheism, for democracy, for existance itself.
Additionally, the vast majority of Muslims are not fanatics, and reject the teachings of terrorism.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
The Islamic world is to blame if this happens. Islamic terrorism is a teenager living in their house. It's their mess. If my family (which lives in Chicago) is killed by a nuke detonated by Islamic terrorists, the entire Muslim world must be punished for not cleaning up their mess.Originally posted by Drachasor
And this, gentlemen, is how Isreal and Palestine got into the mess they're in.
You simply can't make things better by going and killing a ton of civilians on the other side. You only enflame anger and make it harder to create a real difference. Proposing to nuke Mecca is punishing a population that isn't at fault for the crimes of another. In fact, this is one of the few things where you can really make a comparison to Nazi Germany and the treatment of the Jews. Death rights can certainly be similar if you nuke a major city, and you are blaming problems on those that are not responsible and killing said unresponsible group en masse.
-Drachasor
I know it's nice to be all civilized and have enlightened liberal views, but when it affects me directly in the sense that my family is threatened, all bets are off... the gloves come off.
Maybe if terrorists nuke your family, you'll feel the way I do.To us, it is the BEAST.Comment
-
Oh, btw, to the best of my Knowledge the privacy violating sections of the Patriot Act which affect U.S. citizens have not helped to catch a terrorist yet, but have been used to go after U.S. Citizens for domestic issues.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
If AQ do have one nuke, then they probably want to keep mentioning it as often as they can, scare the crap out of people, put the intels on their guard, and then not use it. Once everyone starts thinking "oh, they're just bull****ting, they dont have nuclear capacity", then you use if, to get even greater effect.
A coastal city would be easiest to hit, obviously, and if you want a mid-west city, Chicago is probably a good target. If they do go inland, then the best reason for that is radio-activating a water supply. Drop a nuke at the head of the Missouri and you've ****ed up a lot of the heart of America.Concrete, Abstract, or Squoingy?
"I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, FiraxisComment
-
Right, so I guess the next time someone is put on Death Row, their entire family should join them, right? I mean, their immediate family, anyhow. That's sure to promote the rest of the family to act reasonable and rational and try to strive for peace.Originally posted by Sava
The Islamic world is to blame if this happens. Islamic terrorism is a teenager living in their house. It's their mess. If my family (which lives in Chicago) is killed by a nuke detonated by Islamic terrorists, the entire Muslim world must be punished for not cleaning up their mess.
I know it's nice to be all civilized and have enlightened liberal views, but when it affects me directly in the sense that my family is threatened, all bets are off... the gloves come off.
Maybe if terrorists nuke your family, you'll feel the way I do.
The sort of actions you are proposing are suicide in the long term. They only have blood-thirsty appeal going for them in the short-term. As a pragmatist, I do not care for strategies that simply won't stop terrorism, and will in fact only increase the levels of violence.
So, no, I wouldn't feel the way you do if terrorists killed my family. It is the same if a serial killer killed everyone in my family and my fiance', I wouldn't start advocating the Death Penalty either*. Neither is a pragmatic way to deal with the situation, and it only blurs what is going on and marks it harder to stop future problems.
Letting anger control you and dictate your actions does not constructively solve a problem. You can channel your anger to productive solutions however, which is a much better way to deal with it.
-Drachasor
*The Death Penalty costs more money than life imprisonment because of the endless appeals, and it is quite probable that innocents have been killed by the Death Penalty."If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Originally posted by Drachasor
Rather, a number of big ones do and we aren't helping the ones not directly related to us; for when we support crappy governments it doesn't help them overcome their own crappy governments.
-Drachasor
If the Bush administratin got its finger out of its arse and sorted out the Palestinian-Isreali conflict, then terrorist recruitment would crash.
Others that the US could try to solve that would help:
Kashmir
Iran vs. West (chill out and take the European approach)Comment
-
I lived most of my life under dictatorship and know the power of heavy brainwashing propoganda.Sons and daughters do not have to follow mothers and fathers
It's really niceI know it's nice to be all civilized and have enlightened liberal views
Yet. It's better to oversecure than collect human bits to plastic bags.citizens have not helped to catch a terrorist yetmoney sqrt evil;
My literacy level are appalling.Comment
-
...oh and ChechnyaComment
-
"Those who sacrifice essential freedom for security deserve neither." -Benjamin FranklinOriginally posted by muxec
Yet. It's better to oversecure than collect human bits to plastic bags.
I don't support destroying the freedoms that we need to have an open society, even if it does save a few lives in the short run. In the long run it will make things worse.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
Or even setting an example about valuing human life and standing up for what is right by sending some troops into Suddan to stop the ethnic cleansing.Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
...oh and Chechnya
*sigh*
We are looked upon as hypocrits in the Arab world because our foreign policy is *often* hypocritical with the values we esposue. A consequence of the standard lack of concern the average American has for our foreign affairs.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
-
When Franklin said that the situation was totally different."Those who sacrifice essential freedom for security deserve neither."
65% of muslims support terrorists. Think about it. We value our lifes high they do not.
Sava, if your relatives and friends die you won't feel desire to avenge. You'll feel despair and powerlesness.money sqrt evil;
My literacy level are appalling.Comment
-
Isn't it US policy to retaliate to attack by WMD's by WMD's, IOW, nukes?
(I think it was redone a while back, to allow first strikes with WMD's, tho...)
If an US city is nuked, and US nukes the perpetrators homecity/cities, don't you think that might just prevent further attacks?
"If you attack us, we'll kill... you... all... Every family member, every neighbour, every man, woman, child. We'll make your entire city inhabitable for years to come... Now let me ask you, punk, is it worth it?"
Hey, anybody know, how the 80 virgins in paradise for martyrs work? Do they get stocked with new virgins as old one's get used, or are the used ones re-virginized? Or is it a one time deal, once you use up the 80, that's it. You'll have to do with 80 non-virgins. And are those virgins just created for that one purpose? Do they have hopes, dreams? I'm somewhat confused about the value of such deal, in itself...
Popping virgins is a messy business. I'd rather have women with a bit of experience...
On the long run, it might be fun. But what if you get bored of the same virgins day after day? Can you swap them with other martyrs?
I want to see this in writing, before I commit myself.
Oh, wait, I quess it's for muslims only.
What do atheists get?
Last edited by Tattila the Hun; November 15, 2004, 16:35.I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"Comment
Comment