Europeans Leaders are redfining their foreign policies

[Ted Striker]

This picture says it all:

Nathan Breithaupt of Portland, Ore., cheers as election numbers start to favor a ballot initiative banning same-sex marriage in his state on Tuesday at the election night headquarters for the initiative.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
But I'm sure it's just a "coincidence" that the 11 states that had homophobe legislation just "happened" to go red.

I'm glad you write off discrimination legislation though.

A, you're wrong about that. A couple of states that went Kerry carried their homophobe bills.

B, I give Americans more credit than you seem to. That is really sad.

C. I don't support, or right off, discrimination, but I'm not going to act like a child throwing a tantrum and ignore facts.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by notyoueither


A, you're wrong about that. A couple of states that went Kerry carried their homophobe bills.

B, I give Americans more credit than you seem to. That is really sad.

C. I don't support, or right off, discrimination, but I'm not going to act like a child throwing a tantrum and ignore facts.

I already answered this.

[Drake Tungsten]

Go listen to a rap record, Ted, and tell me what kind of message it sends about gay rights...

[Ted Striker]

I'm sure there are some rap artists that have made bigoted comments about gays.


But the majority of the hip hop world doesn't use homophobia to sell records.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Agathon
Total drivel.

The Kosovo intervention caused more violence than it prevented.

And Afghanistan benefited Europe how?

As I said, NATO is a waste of time. It's an instrument of American interests, and those no longer coincide with those of Europe (well maybe the Italians, but they're mental anyway).

You wish drivel.

The fact is you said NATO was, what was it? Oh, yes, 'an anachronism', when in fact NATO has only started shooting in the last 10 years. Come again.

If you think that Europe and NA exist in a safer world today than we did in 1970, could I interest you in a bridge?

Afghanistan benefitted all members of NATO as a demonstration that if you **** with one of us, you will be ****ed by all of us.

If you don't see how that might benefit Europe, you are delusional.

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I'm sure there are some rap artists that have made bigoted comments about gays.

You need to put the British flag back up if you're gonna employ understatement like that, playa...

[Ted Striker]

Not an understatement at all

Misogyny is rampant, sure, but you might hear some anti-gay stuff every once in a while

Point is they don't use that to sell records

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


Sorry but you are out of touch with reality

Bush IS directly responsible for our low standing in the world today

If you want silly polls numbers, take a look at world opinon polls from 2001 and compare them with 2003. The numbers took a nosedive.

I'm sorry mahn, but I've been out here watching for a long while.

There's been a a lot of hate for America for a very long time. What your seeing as an increase is normal people being swayed by currents that were already there in the wake of bad press over Chirac, the UN, and Iraq.

The tide will recede as normal people return from the grip of the crazies.

[Agathon]

The fact is you said NATO was, what was it? Oh, yes, 'an anachronism', when in fact NATO has only started shooting in the last 10 years. Come again.

Neither occasion made Europe any better off. The first actually did more to cause harm than prevent it, the second had nothing to do with Europe.

If you think that Europe and NA exist in a safer world today than we did in 1970, could I interest you in a bridge?

Really? The fact that in 1970 there was a hostile superpower next door with the world's second largest army and thousands of nuclear weapons primed to attack Europe and North America would seem to make your case rather thin.

Afghanistan benefitted all members of NATO as a demonstration that if you **** with one of us, you will be ****ed by all of us.

Um. No one ****ed with Europe before Afghanistan IIRC.

If you don't see how that might benefit Europe, you are delusional.

Well, since Europe has a long record of dealing with internal terrorism, I can't see your point. Osama and his buddies primarily hate the US, on account of US policies (many of which, particularly regarding Israel, are not supported by Europeans).

Yeah, it is really beneficial for Europe to get involved in conflicts in which it has no real interest, all to please some lunatics across the Atlantic.

[Nubclear]

I'm sorry mahn, but I've been out here watching for a long while.

There's been a a lot of hate for America for a very long time. What your seeing as an increase is normal people being swayed by currents that were already there in the wake of bad press over Chirac, the UN, and Iraq.

The tide will recede as normal people return from the grip of the crazies.

B happens because of A regardless. This is called Process X.
C encourages process X.

Therefore, it is logical to say that C encourages Process X.

[BeBMan]

[Agathon]

There's been a a lot of hate for America for a very long time. What your seeing as an increase is normal people being swayed by currents that were already there in the wake of bad press over Chirac, the UN, and Iraq.

Now who's living in a dream world. Anti-Americanism in the rest of the world is a long standing fact. But for most of that time it was more like Canadian anti-Americanism. In other words low key moaning about McDonalds and stuff.

The current wave is much much different. It has specific causes, all related to Bush's unilateralism over Kyoto, the ICC, Israel and Iraq. Before Bush only a few people really opposed US policy, now it is mainstream thinking even among mostly apolitical people. As I've said before, when my grandfather (a committed Thatcherite) started sounding like Noam Chomsky, it woke me up to how much the US is hated.

[notyoueither]

Aggie, re Kosovo, maybe instead of you deciding what benefitted Europe, you would pay attention to what the Euros begged the US to do within the confines of NATO, not the UN.

If you want to have the slightest credibility, please pay attention to actual events, and not the latest party propaganda.

And yes, in 1970 there was a large threat, on the border and ready. You are right.

However, no European or North American cities were distrurbed by that stand off.

Fact is, we don;t have a stand off today. There are people who are prepared to fly planes into buildingings in New York, and I am sure there are those willing to sail a dirty bomb ladden barge up the Thames to London.

Do you think Qaddafi would have behaved as he did recently had he not witnessed the unity of response to 9/11?

No one ****ed with Europe before Afghanistan? Tell that to the Russians and the Muscovites who died in their beds. Opps, too bad, they are not in NATO.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Agathon


Now who's living in a dream world. Anti-Americanism in the rest of the world is a long standing fact. But for most of that time it was more like Canadian anti-Americanism. In other words low key moaning about McDonalds and stuff.

The current wave is much much different. It has specific causes, all related to Bush's unilateralism over Kyoto, the ICC, Israel and Iraq. Before Bush only a few people really opposed US policy, now it is mainstream thinking even among mostly apolitical people. As I've said before, when my grandfather (a committed Thatcherite) started sounding like Noam Chomsky, it woke me up to how much the US is hated.

Keep thinking your happy thoughts.

Unlike you, I am old enough to have been here before.