One-Issue Voters Make Me Sick

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm honoured to be in such esteemed company.

[Ben Kenobi]

i'm a fan of stem cells. they're going to be thrown away anyway. might as well use them rather than let them go to waste

Are they? Ever hear of embryo adoption Q^3?

There are better options for these children than to use them for lab tests.

[Japher]

BK, most stem cells are thrown out in the biohazard waste bin.

[Ben Kenobi]

I agree, that this is the common approach.

The common approach is very wrong.

They should be given to organisations that are willing to give these kids a chance at life rather than thrown in the trash.

[Japher]

what about stem cells that are the natural "left overs" of normal births?

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh, you mean adult cells?

There's no problem with them. Stem cells harvested from cord blood have proven very useful, and don't require killing a person in the way the embryonic ones do.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Now were talking.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
You don't know me very well. Limiting 'social freedoms' is a bonus, and if he's fiscally conservative, that's another bonus.

A belligerant international politics stance, isn't really that much of an issue.

So you are pro-state religion then? Pro heresy laws?

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Let's see. Does he believe that your faith checks at the door of the legislature?

Let's he believes they can say what they want, but that any law should be based on pretty much non-religious reasons, or reasons that are not specific to any particular religion (christianity is no more support than budhism).

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Is his economics based upon the redistribution of wealth?

So far as it is a pragmatic solution to improving the country overall (in terms of economic growth, health, happiness, etc). We will assume that the effects of these policies is as I said, everyone gets richer in the long run, and generally speaking everything gets better.

-Drachasor

[Q Classic]

Are they? Ever hear of embryo adoption Q^3?

There are better options for these children than to use them for lab tests.

yes, i've heard of that. i support that too.

the fact remains, though, that the vast majority of them are going to be discarded -- which means nobody gets them.

i honestly find that more morally questionable than letting the ones inches from the garbage disposal get used in experiments.

[Ben Kenobi]

Drachosaur:

Your whole post is riddled with jargon.

Define 'social freedoms', define 'good economic principles.'

Can't vote for the man, if I don't understand what he stands for.

So you are pro-state religion then? Pro heresy laws?

Given this choice opposed to a state religion of atheism, and rejection of God, it's pretty cut and dried for me.

Let's he believes they can say what they want, but that any law should be based on pretty much non-religious reasons, or reasons that are not specific to any particular religion (christianity is no more support than budhism).

I'll take that for a yes.

So far as it is a pragmatic solution to improving the country overall (in terms of economic growth, health, happiness, etc). We will assume that the effects of these policies is as I said, everyone gets richer in the long run, and generally speaking everything gets better.

Oh, another yes.

I wouldn't even vote for your good candidate if he were prolife, as opposed to your 'bad' candidate!

[Ben Kenobi]

yes, i've heard of that. i support that too.

Good. So why not support this and require all those involved in fertility treatments to go this route rather than testing stuff on them, or throwing them in the trash?

the fact remains, though, that the vast majority of them are going to be discarded -- which means nobody gets them.

i honestly find that more morally questionable than letting the ones inches from the garbage disposal get used in eyes, i've heard of that. i support that too.

That's a choice between evils. Why not choose the good, over either evil?

[Arrian]

quote:

So you are pro-state religion then? Pro heresy laws?

Given this choice opposed to a state religion of atheism, and rejection of God, it's pretty cut and dried for me.

Translation:

I want you all to live in accordance with MY beliefs, and if you all don't like it, I will use the government to force you to obey.

In the end, it always comes down to this with the religionistas.

Live your own life, believe what you want. But stay the hell out of MY life, Benny boy.

-Arrian

[Drachasor]

So, Ben, are you in favor of laws that enforce a particular set of religious values then? Compared to laws that allow all non-harmful* religious values to be exercised? Naturally these values might not be christian. They could be budhist, hindu, pagan, or anything else.

-Drachasor

*We'll assume "harmful" means direct, physical harm to another (and potentially the self, whichever you prefer).

[Q Classic]

Good. So why not support this and require all those involved in fertility treatments to go this route rather than testing stuff on them, or throwing them in the trash?

because the embryos are theirs. they may not agree with me in that they are actual people. therefore, for me to force my beliefs upon them is also morally unconscionable.

That's a choice between evils. Why not choose the good, over either evil?

wrong. it's not choosing between one good and two evils, it's choosing between one pure good, one lesser good, and one evil.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


Translation:

I want you all to live in accordance with MY beliefs, and if you all don't like it, I will use the government to force you to obey.

In the end, it always comes down to this with the religionistas.

Live your own life, believe what you want. But stay the hell out of MY life, Benny boy.

-Arrian

nah, id just be happy if they would give my kid a bye on homework on Jewish religious holidays

[David Floyd]

BK, I simply can't understand why abortion is such a major issue for a Presidential candidate - the President does not really set abortion laws. Congress writes the laws, and the Supreme Court rules on challenges to the law. Now, the President can INFLUENCE Congress, and he can make appointments to the Supreme Court - but you should realize that any makeup of the Supreme Court that is not composed of social conservatives with a political agenda is not going to overturn Roe.

So, while the President can impact abortion, aren't there more important issues that he has more direct control over? Such as, I don't know, starting wars?

As for the rest of your emotionally charged speech about abortion and embryonic stem cells, why don't you just defer to expert scientific opinion? When doctors agree that embryos and fetuses are living humans, the same as you and me, then I'll be closer to opposing abortion, although you still ignore the fact that a fetus relies on the body of the mother for support, so the continued consent of the mother seems to me to be morally required as well. But in any case, I don't pretend to more about science and medicine than doctors and scientists, and THEY overwhelmingly do not take your view on abortion and stem cell research. Why do you think that is - do they all have a political agenda? No, I doubt it. The ones with a political/religious agenda tend to be the social conservative/religious right doctors and scientists.