The European Parliament: now with balls!

[Tripledoc]

Only 5 percent of the EU budget goes to the bureaucracy.

Anyway, I think it is possible to have corruption without a state bureaucracy. The correlation that more bureaucracy should equal more corruption is therefore not a proven fact.

There are other factors at work when you speak of corruption.
For instance the ties between politicians and corporations. This is not the fault of the bureaucracy.

[Pekka]

Yeah and you BELIEVE in that logic? I can't believe you can be that .. I mean come on. That's so wrong in so many levels. I thought you were smarter than that. Well I guess according to your SUPER logics, Berlin should have the same amount of power and seats than our country. YEP sounds about right!

PS. Learn how to count.

this is what I'm talking about TRUE EUROS. They are so blind to their won EU hegemony, which is only another, the new and improved passive aggressive imperialism. I find it funny most TRUE EUROS also are against US imperialism and aggression in all cases, but accept EU imperialism even in its own ranks. Only shows you TRUE EUros don't give a **** about the rest of us EUropeans, but are only for power grabbing. Stop whining, you ARE the establishment. The sound of the poor and oppressed is us.

[laurentius]

Im a TRUE ASS blah blah blah SUPER blah blah TRUE blah blahblah
Your not TRUE SUPER blah blah only SUPER blah blah

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by laurentius
Well, Spiff you know Barroso gets his cards from the Prime Ministers of the Union. So he kinda had to play to the very end because the PMs in this case berlusconi didnt give him an alternative to play with.

Sure. But he figured he could take the Parliament by force, and he believed they'd cower again in fear of breaking the Great Compromise (well, I expected it too).

Now, he has understood that he is the one who will make-do with the rotten staff. He must either:
1. Reshuffle the Commissioner's jobs so that Buttiglione's bigotry, and the corporate whores' bias appear acceptable.
2. Convince the individual gvernments to send somebody worthy at the Commission. This will be especially important with hungary, considering Hungary's candidate is deemed as utterly incompetent.

[Pekka]

laurentius

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
It shows there's a need for a boss (the Parliament) and a servant (the Commission). I still wonder why Barroso felt he was in any position to decide. He is merely in the position to execute the orders of other institutions.

The EU parliament is elected, but the vote rarely if ever goes above 50 percent in the elctions.

The commisoners are appointed from a base chosen by each individual government, then (maybe not in all cases) approved by the parliament in each nation-state, where the voter participation is significantly higher.

So you either have a more direct trans-european democracy with a questionable mandate, or you have a more indirect nation-based democracy where the commisioners have a secure mandate.

[alva]

This will be especially important with hungary, considering Hungary's candidate is deemed as utterly incompetent.

Wasn't there some commotion 'bout the Dutch one too? IIRC she was involved in several fraude cases too.
Oh, and the English one as well, being a close friend to little dear leader.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yeah and you BELIEVE in that logic? I can't believe you can be that .. I mean come on. That's so wrong in so many levels. I thought you were smarter than that. Well I guess according to your SUPER logics, Berlin should have the same amount of power and seats than our country. YEP sounds about right!

Was that a reply to me?

I was merely pointing out that my district elects precisely as many MEPs as Finland, despite my district being twice as populated as Finland.

And despite Finland being 100% overrepresented over me, I still support that institution where I'm underrepresented

I don't understand why you are so agressive about it. if anything, I am supporting a system that empowers small countries over big ones.

[Pekka]

Spiffor, hey, if you truly believe in that logic, then this debate can't go on because you simply deny logical facts.

You really believe in that? You believe all you just said in your post? omg..



EU inside imperialism

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Sure. But he figured he could take the Parliament by force, and he believed they'd cower again in fear of breaking the Great Compromise (well, I expected it too).

Now, he has understood that he is the one who will make-do with the rotten staff. He must either:
1. Reshuffle the Commissioner's jobs so that Buttiglione's bigotry, and the corporate whores' bias appear acceptable.
2. Convince the individual gvernments to send somebody worthy at the Commission. This will be especially important with hungary, considering Hungary's candidate is deemed as utterly incompetent.

Yeah and if Barroso does those two things, theres the possibility that the Conservatives break a fight by saying the proposed comission is too leftist.

Either way the whole process of getting a new Comission appears too bureucratic in the sence that it can be bring to a halt by PMs, MEPs etc. on so many different levels that it already threatens to make it a real farce and a political chaos..

What I think we should do is. Let the Parliament have their own candidates and let the internal balance of the parliament decide who is elected to what position. This would not only make the process more democratic but it would really give people a reason to vote in the parliamentary elections...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
So you either have a more direct trans-european democracy with a questionable mandate, or you have a more indirect nation-based democracy where the commisioners have a secure mandate.

The relationship between EU-commissioners and voters in their country is very tenuous. At best, the Commissioners are people who successfully lobbied in their own party, which happens to be the party in power during the nomination. These people are completely disconnected from the voters.

For example, nobody in France ever supported (or cared) for the position of Michel Barnier and Pascal Lamy in the Prodi commission. And Pascal Lamy, officially a Socialist, was a champion of free-trade, so extremely it goes opposite to the beliefs of most French people, not mentioning the Socialists.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Besides, I find it funny that Pekka rants about more power to France when the Europarli does something, considering that Pekka has exactly TWICE more say than me in the Parliament. That's right: one Pekka = two Spiffors.

If there was a "Union" between France and India, and every Frenchman got five votes and every Indian got one, don't you think it would still be more power to India?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Pekka
Spiffor, hey, if you truly believe in that logic, then this debate can't go on because you simply deny logical facts.

I don't remember having denied anything in this thread. Please enlighten me of what I'm denying.

You really believe in that? You believe all you just said in your post? omg..

What? That Finland and its 5 Million inhabitants have 12 MEPs, while the Paris Metropolitan Area and its 10 Million inhab. have 12 MEPs as well?
Meaning that one Finnish voter has twice as much say in the European Parliament as a Parisian one?
Yes.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by laurentius
What I think we should do is. Let the Parliament have their own candidates and let the internal balance of the parliament decide who is elected to what position. This would not only make the process more democratic but it would really give people a reason to vote in the parliamentary elections...

That is a good idea.
However, then you might as well just dismantle the national parliaments.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
If there was a "Union" between France and India, and every Frenchman got five votes and every Indian got one, don't you think it would still be more power to India?

It would definitely be less power to the Indian voter. In the case of a Supranational institution like the European Parliament, nationality means little. Ideologies mean the most. If Pekka votes for a conservative MEP, the guy will seat with conservative MEPs from France, Italy, Slowakia etc. The guy won't sit with only other Finns, and there won't be a "Finnish bloc" at the Parliament. Just like there is no "French bloc" or "Italian bloc".