380 TONS of Explosives (HMX, RDX) in Iraq Left Unsecured, Now Looted!

[Ramo]

I posted many, many times debunking that report. The reporter actually says that they didn't search the site, so obviously they didn't find the explosives.

And what specific criticisms of the IAEA do you have?

[Ramo]

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3741.html?cat=1

[Ned]

Ramo, the problem with your debunking is that there were other embeds that said the same thing as originally reported by NBC (all the network embeds, for that matter), and we have the 3rd ID reports that an inspection was conducted at the time they were there a week before the 101st arrived.

I am not saying that these guys were or are perfect and they all could be wrong. But it does increasingly look like the HMX and RDX was not there on April 3. Even so, an investigation is STILL underway, and the facts may be support CBS.

However, nothing CBS had supports what they said because CBS had no evidence, none at all, that the HE was still there when the 3rd ID arrived. This would require some positive ID of the materials being there by the 3rd ID or later by the 101st. To date, I have heard no such evidence.

Thus, it remains true that CBS went with a Bush bashing story with unconfirmed facts.

[Ned]

Ramo, better. We should await what the experts say about those photos.

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by Ned
Ramo, the problem with your debunking is that there were other embeds that said the same thing as originally reported by NBC (all the network embeds, for that matter), and we have the 3rd ID reports that an inspection was conducted at the time they were there a week before the 101st arrived.

I am not saying that these guys were or are perfect and they all could be wrong. But it does increasingly look like the HMX and RDX was not there on April 3. Even so, an investigation is STILL underway, and the facts may be support CBS.

The glaring problem is the 3rd ID WAS NOT looking for high explosives just actual WMDs. They could have even seen the explosives and just not made a note of it. The facility was absolutely huge, the size of Manhatten, and they were only there for a 2 days.

[Ned]

Mordoch, we should await the final report of the Pentagon. It is my understanding that these explosives were listed as "WMD" because they were a critical component in nuclear weapons.

[Ramo]

Look Ned, there's a mountainload of evidence that the explosives were there after we invaded. If you're actually curious, you can read this thread (and specifically, what I've posted), or go to, for instance, Josh Marshall's site (www.talkingpointsmemo.com). But I'm not going to repeat everything for you.

As for the 3rd, again, they did not search for explosives:

The first U.S. military unit to reach the site in Iraq (news - web sites) where U.N. officials say 377 tons of high explosives are missing did not carry out a hunt for such material, the unit's commander said on Wednesday.

Col. Dave Perkins, then the commander of the 2nd Brigade of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, said the immediate concern when his troops reached the Al Qaqaa site on April 3, 2003, was to defeat a couple of hundred Iraqi troops who were firing from the compound as the Americans surged toward Baghdad.

[...]

Perkins said the key concern at the time was whether there were any weapons of mass destruction, particularly chemical weapons, and that a white powdery substance found at the site proved to be a WMD false alarm.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20041027/ts_nm/iraq_explosives_pentagon_dc

Literally everything written asserting that the explosives were gone has been debunked (except, possibly, the Boykin story, but it's entirely possible that the explosives were gone by May since the place was already practically dismantled by April, and neither the statements of Boykin nor the Washington Times should be taken without other sources - so far not forthcoming - given their credibility issues).

[Gibsie]

Haven't you worked it out yet? They didn't waste manpower in a search because they were already gone!

[Ned]

Ramo, I see no proof one way or the other, actually.

[Ramo]

So, the testimony of Allawi's gov't, the head of the Iraqi science ministry, the IAEA, and David Kay, and the white powerdy explosives with IAEA seals found at the site are all irrelevent?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
So, Allawi's gov't, the head of the Iraqi science ministry, the IAEA, and David Kay, and the white powerdy explosives with IAEA seals found at the site are all irrelevent?

Ramo, they all said the same thing and all of them have no better evidence that the US military which has not yet said that anything they found at the site was HMX and RDX. They still might, though, which is why I caution that we should wait until they report.

[Ramo]

Experts who have studied the images say the barrels on the tape contain the high explosive HMX, and the U.N. markings on the barrels are clear.


"I talked to a former inspector who's a colleague of mine, and he confirmed that, indeed, these pictures look just like what he remembers seeing inside those bunkers," said David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington.


The barrels were found inside sealed bunkers, which American soldiers are seen on the videotape cutting through. Inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency sealed the bunkers where the explosives were kept just before the war began.


"The seal's critical," Albright said. "The fact that there's a photo of what looks like an IAEA seal means that what's behind those doors is HMX. They only sealed bunkers that had HMX in them."

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=206847

The argument is over. The explosives were there.

[Mordoch]

Here's a followup to the video tape and a link to the news story with a couple of pictures of an IEAE seal found when the reporter was with the 101st airborne and decided to look around the base. The IEAE seal was still there and they had to break it to enter at least one of the bunkers. Interestingly the IEAE seal had a number of 144322 on it, so the UN inspectors can probably say what exactly was in the bunker.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3741.html?cat=1

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by The diplomat

Why can't you admit the truth that the explosives were removed before the invasion?

Behold:

Originally posted by The diplomat
http://www.<b>washtimes</b>.com/nati...2637-6257r.htm

[Berzerker]

They still might, though, which is why I caution that we should wait until they report.

Sorry, we gotta elect someone next week