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Do you want quotes from Kerry vs. quotes from Bush or quotes from respective campaigns including Cheny and Edwards as well as DNC & RNC?
I am assuming you want the entirety of teh respective campaigns sans 527 groups. correct?
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Do you want quotes from Kerry vs. quotes from Bush or quotes from respective campaigns including Cheny and Edwards as well as DNC & RNC?
I am assuming you want the entirety of teh respective campaigns sans 527 groups. correct?"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter -
Kerry and Edwards vs. Bush and Cheney.Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Do you want that as Kerry and Edwards vs. Cheney and Bush? or simply Kerry vs. Bush?
Let me know which one you'ld like to see, it'll be an interesting exercise.A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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I got about 33 articles are on Kerry-Edwards Inaccuracies since December 2003, and that includes before Kerry-Edwards were together on a ticket. 37 counts on Bush articles where he was misleading or lied.
I didn't go into the articles and look at the specifics of each one though. I suspect the divide would be even greater if I counted those.
Of course, this in no way details the magnitude of the lies, or wether they core point was largely accurate.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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dp"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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OK keeping that in mind I throw out the following incidents for Bush/Cheney campaign.
Republican Economist Asks "Retraction" – But Our Facts Stand - Economist claims non RNC
Census Says Income is Down, but Some Republicans Claim it's Up
Zell Millers attack on Kerry: A little out of date
Republican Funded Groups attacks Kerry's War record
Internet "Whispering Campaigns" Falsely Accuse Teresa Heinz Kerry
Conservative Group Engages in Class Warfare Vs. Kerry
Subtotal removed from general count = 5
For Kerry Edward I discount the following factcheck.org pieces
Would Bush Eliminate Overtime Pay for 8 Million? - MoveOn
Twisted Facts and Falsehoods in Media Fund Ad - Media Fund
Environmental Group's Ad Distorts Bush's Record on Florida Drilling -Environemntal Group of some flavor
Draft Fears Fueled by Inaccurate E-mails
MoveOn PAC Internet Ad: Creative Editing - MoveOn
Media Fund Ad Misquotes Bush - Media Fund
ACLU Ad On "Sneak-and-Peek" Searches: Overblown - ACLU
Subtotal removed from general count = 7
Bush/Cheney = 42 - 5 = 37
Kerry/Edwards = 44 - 7 = 37
Its a tie!!!
We need a recount with all hanging chads accounted for!!
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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I only included articles relating to Bush/Cheney/GOP(campaigning for them) innaccuracies (though there were only about 2 of the latter).
For Kerry/Edwards I only had articles related to what they said.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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I'll double-check my numbers and get back to you.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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You need to do that. Some of the ones that are obvious from the outside are in fact damning to both campaigns.Originally posted by Drachasor
I didn't go into the articles and look at the specifics of each one though. I suspect the divide would be even greater if I counted those.
-Drachasor"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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And I counted those for both.Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
You need to do that. Some of the ones that are obvious from the outside are in fact damning to both campaigns.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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Thats what I did as well.Originally posted by Drachasor
And I counted those for both.
-Drachasor
In any event (37 vs. 33, 37 vs. 37, 47 vs. 45) the polling whether you choose to believe Kerry/Edwards being slightly more prone to distortion or Bush/Cheney slightly prone to more distortion does not on the face of it give any credence to the supposition that one side or the other is more likely to distort in terms of frequency. If so it is miniscule. So from that standpoint I think it appropriate to debunk the myth of one side lying/exaggerating/distorting more than the other.
That being said your case as to which is more damaging and which actually provides more traction to the candidate is always open to debate. That to me is not an issue for the media to decide as that simply implies partisanship of the media without public debate.
Finally given that both sides lie/distort/exxagerate with equal (or relatively equal) frequency the posture of ABC, if indeed the memo is real, is without merit.Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe; October 12, 2004, 15:18."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Finally given that both sides lie/distort/exxagerate with equal (or relativly equal) frequency the posture of ABC if indeed the memo is real is without merit.
Meaning we should judge this based on other aspects, such as, lets say, the administration's record in office...
Game Over.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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Or the senators record. Oops doesn't have one. Oops game over."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Bush/Cheney = 42 - 5 = 37
Kerry/Edwards = 44 - 7 = 37
Its a tie!!!
We need a recount with all hanging chads accounted for!!
those darn chads
So which equally deceptive politician can you support?A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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Here's the data from September 2004 to now, I'll go do more months later today. This is a breakdown of the individual lies in each article, the number at the end of each one is how many times Bush lied more than Kerry (a 0 would be none and a negative number would mean Kerry lied more than Bush by that amount).
Pro-Bush Puffery on Economy, Medicare (Bush 2) Net: 2
Distortions Galore at Second Presidential Debate (Bush 7, Kerry 6) Net: 1
Cheney & Edwards Mangle Facts (Bush 9, Kerry 4) Net: 5
Bush Mischaracterizes Kerry's Health Plan (Bush 3) Net: 3
Distortions and Misstatements At First Presidential Debate (Bush 7, Kerry 6) Net: 1
Kerry Ad Falsely Accuses Cheney on Halliburton (Kerry 3) Net: -3
Bush Ad Twists Kerry's Words on Iraq (Bush 7) Net: 7
GOP Website Uses Misleading Kerry Quote On Abortion (Bush 1) Net: 1
Are Bush and Cheney "Small Businesses?" Their Ad Counts Them As Such (Bush 1) Net: 1
Misinforming Voters From The Stump (Bush 3, Kerry 3) Net: 0
Kerry & Bush Duel Over Medicare Premiums - Who's To Blame For The 17% Increase? (Bush 3, Kerry 1) Net: 2
Kerry Exaggerates Cost of War in Iraq (Kerry 1) Net: -1
Update on Kerry's "Shrinking Middle Class" -- Still Shrinking in 2003 (Argueable: Kerry 1) Net: -1
Total Net: 18
So While the number of articles doesn't seem that out of kilter (10 Bush vs 8 Kerry), many more lies are coming from the Bush camp.
-DrachasorLast edited by Drachasor; October 12, 2004, 15:41."If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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BadnarikOriginally posted by MrFun
those darn chads
So which equally deceptive politician can you support?
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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