Time Value of Money

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Yes granted. But then doesn't it follow that our desires for these limited goods/services mean that our desires set their value as we compete with each other to fulfill said desires?

I don't know if you set a value. I think you are talking about price.

[Flip McWho]

So we are debating about something that is all smoke and mirrors then?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
If somebody puts in the work and nobody wants the product then that work is valueless correct?

Grey area. There are examples where that is not true.

[Japher]

You said this Kid:

"All value is created by work."

However, if work can be performed without creating value than I would argue that value can be created without performing work. SInce you have not show how work is related to value, since it CAN be all of the value or none of it, it should be reasoned that work can be some of the value.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
So we are debating about something that is all smoke and mirrors then?

Why do you say that? And why didn't you answer the question that I gave you about savings and value.

[Flip McWho]

Money is what the value of the work is paid in within society. Even in the barter economy people worked for so many hours a week producing say tomato's and somebody down the road spent so many hours rearing cows and then at some point in time they trade. Say four cows to 50 Kgs of tomato's. Now these two have bartered and arrived at an acceptable value for the work they put in.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher
You said this Kid:

"All value is created by work."

However, if work can be performed without creating value than I would argue that value can be created without performing work. SInce you have not show how work is related to value, since it CAN be all of the value or none of it, it should be reasoned that work can be some of the value.

There's a problem with your logic there. Just because all value is created by work, doesn't mean that work always creates value.

[Flip McWho]

And why didn't you answer the question that I gave you about savings and value.

Sorry missed it.

Saving money does not create value. Spending money is what stimulates work, which in turn creates value. Are we together on this or should we go into this?

Saving money can stimulate work as well because the banks lend the money you save out as investments. But generally I agree with spending stimulating work. It creates value but that value is only measureable by money because of the monetary system.

[Japher]

I recognize that kid... and my first sentence after the quote acknowledges that.

Value = Work + Unknown

-Work
@ Unknown=-Work, desire = 0, indicating that Value=0

@ Unknown=0, Value=work

However, I am stipulating that the Unknown is not a point value that is either true or false, -work or 0... I am saying that there are values that fall in between that can decrease and increase tha value.

[Flip McWho]

Just because all value is created by work, doesn't mean that work always creates value.

So how are we supposed to know whether to attribute value to some work? Through our desires for that work. Following from this our desires for a product only stretch as far as our ability to get the product. In this society that requires money. Therefore our desires create price which in turn create value.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Money is what the value of the work is paid in within society.

Only work that is performed for pay.

Even in the barter economy people worked for so many hours a week producing say tomato's and somebody down the road spent so many hours rearing cows and then at some point in time they trade. Say four cows to 50 Kgs of tomato's. Now these two have bartered and arrived at an acceptable value for the work they put in.

The cattle rancher has satisfied the tomato farmers desires and the tomato farmer has satisfied the cattle ranchers desires so value has been created. The price is arbitrary.

[Flip McWho]

Yes but in the case what is the value of the both products separately from one another?

They have no value untill they meet together in a market and attribute value to one another.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Saving money can stimulate work as well because the banks lend the money you save out as investments. But generally I agree with spending stimulating work. It creates value but that value is only measureable by money because of the monetary system.

No. Investing stimulates work. Imagine an economy where all the money was saved.

[Flip McWho]

Yeah it would stagnate. But I was just pointing out that some savings goes back out into the economy in the form of bank loans. Why do you think banks crash when everyone goes in and tries to draw all their money out at the same time?


EDIT: Bad sentence structure.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher
I recognize that kid... and my first sentence after the quote acknowledges that.

Value = Work + Unknown

-Work
@ Unknown=-Work, desire = 0, indicating that Value=0

@ Unknown=0, Value=work

However, I am stipulating that the Unknown is not a point value that is either true or false, -work or 0... I am saying that there are values that fall in between that can decrease and increase tha value.

That's not true if work is greater than value. I'm a little confused though. Your notation is strange to me.