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The Battle of the VPs

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  • #181
    Final score:

    Edwards: B-
    Cheney: C

    Edwards and Cheney got a bunch of good hits on each other early in the debate. The second half of the debate - on domestic issues - was utterly boring though. Stylistically, Cheney sounded like he was going to eat children after the debate, and Edwards butchered a few sentences.

    Edwards was able to more than than hold his own against Cheney on policy - even foreign policy, so Edwards wins in the expectation game. Also, Edwards put Halliburton front and center, possibly making it into an issue covered by cable news.

    So, a win for Edwards. Not a big one, but a win nonetheless.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

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    • #182
      Originally posted by Jaguar
      I think not. It's a big party, and at best Edwards is going to have a ticket which floundered against Bush to his name.
      That's a bold prediction. The floundering, that is. This is going to be a close, close election, and either ticket could take it. Really, really close.

      But regardless, it's hard to see Edwards becoming President. If Kerry wins, he'll have to succeed Kerry as Veep, which is hard. And if Kerry loses, he'll be completely out of the public eye, without any public office. He'd have to move to another state and run again for the Senate.

      Obama. That is who is gonna be the Dem nominee a few elections from now.
      "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
      "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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      • #183
        Yep, Obama will mop the floor with Edwards in the primaries.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

        Comment

        • #184
          Originally posted by Ramo
          So, a win for Edwards. Not a big one, but a win nonetheless.
          Not even close. Cheney clearly won this debate.
          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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          • #185
            Originally posted by PLATO


            Not even close. Cheney clearly won this debate.
            I can see an argument being made for Edwards winning*, but I agree: Cheney did win the debate, if only by an "average" margin.

            *Well, no, not really
            Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
            Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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            • #186
              Originally posted by Ramo
              Yep, Obama will mop the floor with Edwards in the primaries.
              Obama is definately a rising star, but Edwards can play to the solid South. You will see both in the democratic future.
              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

              Comment

              • #187
                Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


                I can see an argument being made for Edwards winning*, but I agree: Cheney did win the debate, if only by an "average" margin.

                *Well, no, not really
                I agree that he didn't dominate, but he did clearly win.
                "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                Comment

                • #188
                  On CNN, Carlos Watson thought Edwards was more likely to influence the undecided voter.

                  Of course, he also scored Bush as the winner in the first debate, so I think he's just bat****.
                  "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                  "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

                  Comment

                  • #189
                    Keep in mind that in a lot of states, Southern Democrats are largely black.
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                    -Bokonon

                    Comment

                    • #190
                      Originally posted by Guynemer


                      That's a bold prediction. The floundering, that is. This is going to be a close, close election, and either ticket could take it. Really, really close.
                      They were already floundering in August.

                      I'm not by any means calling a Bush victory. I think it's very even. But they really struggled to get where they are now, and they should be winning by 15 points. Doing marginally better than George W. Bush is not an achievement.
                      "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                      Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                      Comment

                      • #191
                        Originally posted by Guynemer
                        On CNN, Carlos Watson thought Edwards was more likely to influence the undecided voter.

                        Of course, he also scored Bush as the winner in the first debate, so I think he's just bat****.
                        "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                        Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                        Comment

                        • #192
                          I missed some of the middle, but from what I saw I'd definately give the edge to Cheney. He was more focused and he flowed much better. Edwards sounded like he was stringing together memorized sound bites rather than responding to the question or Cheney (but at least he had a hell of a lot more sound bites to string together than Bush so he wasn't anywhere near as hellishly repetitive). Again and again he brought up things completely out of left field that got really annoying.

                          Would definately give Cheney the win in the first half and thought that Edwards recovered a bit and came fairly close to evening it up in the second, but still if you're honest you've got to give it to Cheney.
                          Stop Quoting Ben

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                          • #193
                            Originally posted by Jaguar
                            I'm not by any means calling a Bush victory.
                            I am.
                            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                            Comment

                            • #194
                              Originally posted by Boshko
                              I missed some of the middle, but from what I saw I'd definately give the edge to Cheney. He was more focused and he flowed much better. Edwards sounded like he was stringing together memorized sound bites rather than responding to the question or Cheney (but at least he had a hell of a lot more sound bites to string together than Bush so he wasn't anywhere near as hellishly repetitive). Again and again he brought up things completely out of left field that got really annoying.

                              Would definately give Cheney the win in the first half and thought that Edwards recovered a bit and came fairly close to evening it up in the second, but still if you're honest you've got to give it to Cheney.
                              Everything in this post is extremely accurate.
                              "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                              Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                              Comment

                              • #195
                                Originally posted by Jaguar
                                I'm not by any means calling a Bush victory. I think it's very even. But they really struggled to get where they are now, and they should be winning by 15 points. Doing marginally better than George W. Bush is not an achievement.
                                I'd agree with you there.

                                If the Democrats can not manage to beat this president, with this record, then they are completely and utterly ****ing hopeless.
                                "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                                "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

                                Comment

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