The Case for the Empire

[Ted Striker]

All I know is, I enjoyed playing Tie Fighter 10 times more than X Wing, because of the immersion of who I was fighting for.


But then the political test said I was a fascist and a national socialist so I could see why the empire is so appealing to me.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I see Darth Siddiqui beat me to it

Darth Siddiqui

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Lonestar
No, it was a problem with the entire system. When Political bodies that are "subordinate" to the Republic reach the point that their militaires are greater than all the Force(pun intended) the Federal Government can bring to bear, then there is something wrong with the system.

What finally killed the Republic was the fact these militaries were being used by Force-users on both sides. This isn't to saw it couldn't have ended the way it did without Force Users leading the Seccesionists, but it made it easier.

Yes, but the well armed subordinate body was under the direction of a supernatural entity. You can hardly expect mere mortals to be able to cope with a supernatural entity. Can you think of some other instance in which mere mortals have fought off supernatural beings? The problem with the Republic was that its own supernatural entities, the Jedi Order, were too crusty for their own good. Unless you can find some instance in which the Jedi were receiving bribes that can't be called corruption. It can be called degeneracy, yes, but not corruption. It would be more accurate to say that the Republic due to degeneration. A key example would be Yoda.

[Gibsie]

The opening article reminds me of the storyline in Angel that I saw just wrapped up last night. A divine being called Jasmine was conquering Earth through peace and love (sickening), but she was taking away everyone's free will, and eating some of her followers. Angel decided she had to die so we could regain our free will- and instantly LA becomes a place of fear and violence where it had been harmonious under Jasmine. I think I agree with that.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber


Star Wars was written by Lucas when he was in College. By the time that ANH was finally shown to the cast it was clear to Lucas that Star Wars would be a blockbuster and when released it was in fact subtitled Episode IV: A New Hope. the only doubt that Lucas had in making future movies was that in the middle of production he still did not have most of the CGI done. Lucas had to intervene personally to direct the CGI section (leading to the creation of ILM) in order to complete the movie on time.

The GGI stuff was only the tip of the problems Lucus had (most of the special effects wasn't completed even after shootiing ended) The executives had threatened to pull the plug on the movie before shooting was actually done. Lucas was given a week or two (before the next board meeting) to get all his shooting done. He had to split up into three different teams. The executives hated it, most of the crew made fun of the movie throughout production, and the cast had absoultely no idea what was being accomplished until the day they saw it for the first time. I don't know what movie you are talking about but Lucus was not at all optimistic about how poeple would react to the movie. All of this is what Lucus himself has said. I would think he would know about such things more than you or I.

I don't know if you have the DVD's that were recently released but you should try and watch the Empire of Dreams feature and see what the man actually has to say about it before making up a rosey portrait of the past.

[Pax]

We can't really be sure what life in the Republic or the Empire is really like for the common man. The movies primarily show the rich and powerful. Very little common man suffering. By Neo-con standards Skywalker and Company are all terrorists and the Empire has the right to defend itself. Everytime. Other than the arguable terrorists few people have any of what we consider civil and human rights violated. With the exception of slavery which seems to be legal in the republic and empire.
However, Palpatine is obviously a corrupt figure. That does not mean that he took power out of selfishness or greed. How far does law and order go before it becomes oppression?
The main problem with the whole story is that the character are so shallow that we can only determine that Palpatine is evil so the Empire must be evil. Huh?

[Dr Strangelove]

In the book series they fluffed up Palpatine's evil by claiming that he was a pro-human chauvinist bent upon ther subjugation and even eradication of the non-human sentient races.

The only planet he managed to eradicate was inhabited by humans. Obviously the empire wasn't all that efficient.

[Imran Siddiqui]

most of the crew made fun of the movie throughout production

Yep, and especially the Brits in the cast and crew thought it'd be a monumental flop.

Neo-con standards Skywalker and Company are all terrorists and the Empire has the right to defend itself.

Aroo? By Neo-Con standards the Empire is against everything they want (ie, spreading democracy by force).

The main problem with the whole story is that the character are so shallow that we can only determine that Palpatine is evil so the Empire must be evil. Huh?

I'd think destroying entire planets without any consideration as to the people living there is kind of evil outside of the Emperor . That and abolishing the Imperial Senate and letting local warlords rule by fiat... where fear will keep the people in line.

If you don't see that as evil, I'm scared for you.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Ming
While this is "old"... it's still entertaining. But yes, some people have WAY TOO MUCH spare time on their hands

Says the man willing to babysit computer geeks discussing politics.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
when released it was in fact subtitled Episode IV: A New Hope.

Back in the 70s, movies used to be released in smaller markets before going nationwide. I happened to live in one of those markets, Lincoln, NE, when Star Wars first came out. To me, ANH will always be Star Wars. In the book version that came out in the 70s it was Star Wars.

It didn't become ANH until the rerelease in the 90s. When I saw it then I was like, what the hell is this ANH ****!?!

As far as I'm concerned, the movies are titled thusly.
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back and
Return of the Jedi

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous


Says the man willing to babysit computer geeks discussing politics.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

It didn't become ANH until the rerelease in the 90s. When I saw it then I was like, what the hell is this ANH ****!?!

It's ANH in my VHS trilogy, which predates the rereleases (circa 1992 when I got it) and shows the movies in their original form, complete with Han shooting first and no Jabba at Mos Eisley scene.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Aroo? By Neo-Con standards the Empire is against everything they want (ie, spreading democracy by force).

I'd think destroying entire planets without any consideration as to the people living there is kind of evil outside of the Emperor . That and abolishing the Imperial Senate and letting local warlords rule by fiat... where fear will keep the people in line.

If you don't see that as evil, I'm scared for you.

Neo-cons don't necessarily believe in spreading democracy by force. They believe in spreading American dominance by force.

It's already been pointed out that it's not apparent what level of resistance to the empire was on that planet.

By your measure, the U.S. would be evil because we nuked Japanese cities and firebombed German ones.

By my measure the Republic and Empire could both be considered evil because slavery was legal. I feel that slavery is a greater crime than abolishing the senate. It can be argued that slavery was a catalyst for Anakin turning to the darkside.

Going back to Neo-cons what do you think they are doing if not attempting to rule by fear. Prepare to be shocked and awed.

[DinoDoc]

The Outer Rim where Tatooine is located was beyond the authority of the Republic, Pax.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Pax

Going back to Neo-cons what do you think they are doing if not attempting to rule by fear. Prepare to be shocked and awed.

shock and awe was a military strategy, not a political one. It would continue to be US MILITARY doctrine even if we have a govt that doesnt use the military in the situations where the neocons would.