Kerry's Speech on Iraq

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I'm sure it was a meaningful speech, but I almost drove off the road falling asleep to the monotone delivery of Kerry.

[Caligastia]

[Imran Siddiqui]

What exactly is the magical "transformation" he proposes for the military? First I'll remind you of a poignant line in Zell Miller's speech about what weapons systems our military would be using if Kerry's Senate "no" votes had carried.

You mean the same weapons systems our military would be using if Cheney's recommendations while he was SefDef had carried as well? Obviously Cheney agreed with Kerry's votes back then. Why is it different now? The B-52 is antiquated, why shouldn't we modernize?

of the other nations who agreed to 1546 have followed up on that promise. Whose fault is that?

Bush's responsibility is to follow up on it. Maybe offer some quid pro quo for something those countries need done. Yes, Bush and his diplomatic team are basically sitting on its ass.

we simply wouldn't give their governments any control over the rebuilding, which is basically what France and Germany were trying to get.

Why not? This type of attitude leads to the whole "It's your mess, you fix it" statements. We can't give up control over our new colony, is that it?

Excuse me, but alliances are 2-way streets. The insults came from the other side of the ocean (and Great Lakes) first. Then we said, "Screw you, we'll do it ourselves" and kicked butt without their help.

Yep, disagreements in policy are 'insults'. No wonder Bush has no friends on the international arena (if you really think Blair is friendly with Bush rather than holding his nose in trying to continue the 'special relationship' you are kidding yourself).

all the roads and bridges and power stations and pipelines already rebuilt don't help the Iraqi people.

$1 billion has been spent of the $18 billion promised. Sorry, but underfunded mandates (which seems to be a recurring theme in this administration) delay any tangible benefits. It's far too little being given to them.

it isn't poverty that creates terrorism, it is ideology.

Without poverty, terrorism would be very insignificant force in the world. Where do you think the suicide bombers come from? You think the rich bastards who run AQ are killing themselves? Hell no! It's the poor people in the streets who have nothing more to live for. And as Iraq gets more and more FUBARed, less people have something to live for and think that perhaps the terrorists are on to something. When you aren't getting a paycheck, what some radical group says looks mighty appealing (ie, Russia in the 1910s, Italy in the 1920s, etc).

let the responsibility fall to the UN

It's the only way that Iraq will become the democracy we want it to. A great number of Iraqis see the US as occupiers and want us out. Hell, look at the Iraqi soccer team in the Olympics for one!

The UN has failed to lead, every time. It is only when individual countries siezed the initiative that anything has been accomplished

Um... you are aware that the UN is made up of individual countries, right? And that the Security Council is the leadership apparatus of the UN, right? So if anyone is to blame for lack of leadership, look at the states on the executive body of the UN.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The B-2 is antiquated, why shouldn't we modernize?

Did you mean B2 or B52?

[Imran Siddiqui]

The B-52, sorry... I'll fix it.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Bush's responsibility is to follow up on it.

I actually agree with you on this point. He should probably have Allawi publically name a few countries and ask them to fulfil the commitments they made before the world in 1546.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That would have been a great diplomatic move. Have Allawi plead on behalf of the Iraqi people, saying to put the differences on the legitimacy of the war behind them and work for the betterment of the people there. Coming from Iraq itself, it would VERY powerful.

[DinoDoc]

Shame is a great motivator.

[GePap]

Shame lasts for 3 seconds, then you get pissed that the it was done to you and you dig in.

That was a good speech. Back in the days of journalism, reporters would have covered it. Today, in the days of "newsmedia", they don't. How wonderful for our democracy.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Boshko

There's no real contradiction there (or at least not quite). He was criticizing the route of the wall, not its existance.

Yes, Bosko is right, it's not a contradiction.

Kerry supports the idea of the wall. He just doesn't like how the Israelis have built parts of it in Palestinian territory. This is the same view that I share and is a rational one.

When it goes against the 3rd grade Bush black and white ideaology of "you're with us or against us," Repulicans call it flip flopping.

Also, are there any NON GOP sites out there that give examples of flip flopping?

[Ted Striker]

Here's an example of flip flopping:


Bush: "I'm going to serve my country and join the Air National Guard."


Bush: "Hey, I'm going to go AWOL and not show up for duty!"

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Also, are there any NON GOP sites out there that give examples of flip flopping?

There's at least 30 examples backed up with non-GOP sources. Then we have the I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it stand by.

[GePap]

That was a very stupid way of phrasing what is reality was a complex problem-what actually occured:

Bush brings this bill to the house: Kerry wanted to have a split vote- vote for the 67 Billion military appropriation on one hand, and a seperate vote for the reconstruction money. He always supported the 67 billion but could not support the admins. plan for the 20 billion. The admin. would not budge and would not split the vote, so Kerry ended up voting for the whole thing.

Kerry's worries about the reconstruction funding was well founded as we now know.

[Bosh]

Originally posted by GePap
That was a very stupid way of phrasing what is reality was a complex problem-what actually occured:

Bush brings this bill to the house: Kerry wanted to have a split vote- vote for the 67 Billion military appropriation on one hand, and a seperate vote for the reconstruction money. He always supported the 67 billion but could not support the admins. plan for the 20 billion. The admin. would not budge and would not split the vote, so Kerry ended up voting for the whole thing.

Kerry's worries about the reconstruction funding was well founded as we now know.

Was Kerry one of the democrats who wanted the reconstruction money given to Iraq as loans?
Please please tell me he wasn't.

[The diplomat]

Bush speech at the UN was far superior to Kerry meaningless drivel. Kerry's claim that he can build a better coalition is simply unrealistic. Why in the world would France or Germany send their soldiers to die in Iraq for no reason?