Kerry's Speech on Iraq

[MalevolentLight]

mindseye what would happen if you talked bad of China right now and called for the removal of the Communist regime?

[Imran Siddiqui]

He's kind of done it more than once, ML... showing your ignorance once again.

[Ramo]

Absolute Must-Read by Juan Cole:

If America were Iraq, What would it be Like?

President Bush said Tuesday that the Iraqis are refuting the pessimists and implied that things are improving in that country.

What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and even pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial over on the Mall? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?

[MalevolentLight]

Yes I am so ignorant to have not read every post by Mindseye. I will get on it right away and read through all the posts on here. And while I'm at it I'll make a very large dictionary of quotes from you showing your extreme conservatism. All conservatives support kerry.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by MalevolentLight
Yes I am so ignorant

OMG PWNED!!!!!!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm glad you admit you are ignorant . Let's see, making a claim about something while admiting you haven't read posts dealing with the issue.... hmmm... yeah, sounds like a clear cut case of ignorant behavior.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GePap


NO, but they will if they think the US won't be solely in charge and they get a say in the run of military affairs- or if they get to bet for contracts in Iraq (if you think they care only about money), or if they think they won;t be doing the bidding of the US with zero reward for them-which is essentially the situation now.

You're dreaming.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ned
Bush will bring democracy and hope to the Muslim world.

Does anyone really believe this BS?

Does anyone really believe that Bush is going to bring democracy to places like in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Pakistan.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by The diplomat
Bush speech at the UN was far superior to Kerry meaningless drivel. Kerry's claim that he can build a better coalition is simply unrealistic. Why in the world would France or Germany send their soldiers to die in Iraq for no reason?

I was ashamed of his speech, how he could go before the entire world and launch a damn campaign speech.


Meanwhile Colin Powell just asked for a large (international) troop increase to secure elections in Afghanistan.

How can we deploy enough troops in 20 days?

[MalevolentLight]

I'm glad you admit you are ignorant . Let's see, making a claim about something while admiting you haven't read posts dealing with the issue.... hmmm... yeah, sounds like a clear cut case of ignorant behavior.

I believe what you're referring to was a question my libertarian friend. But hey I can understand how you might be confused being that you are also confused about your political identity.

Does anyone really believe this BS?

Does anyone really believe that Bush is going to bring democracy to places like in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Pakistan.

Well at least someone's trying. Can't say as much for Europe now can we?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I believe what you're referring to was a question my libertarian friend

Mindseye is now a libertarian? That's news. Speaking of confused about political identity.

[Ted Striker]

Well the political test said I'm a fascist.


No wonder I like the Govenator so much.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by MalevolentLight



Well at least someone's trying. Can't say as much for Europe now can we?

What kind of reasoning is that?

To say that we cannot criticize questionable decisions made by the Bush administration in Iraq, just because other countries have failed to take any action does not make any sense to me.

[aaglo]

Originally posted by Ned
I just love it when Kerry supporters say that the only solution to the problems of terror is to SUPPORT ruthless, mass murdering, raping, torturing DICTATORS, who of course, are better for their people than any democracy.

FASCIST NAZI

Well, that's excactly what USA has been doing (supporting ruthless, mass murdering, raping, torturing DICTATORS) for the last 40 years around the globe. Saddam Hussein is included in those dictators.

[Ted Striker]

We kept the Soviets off your back so STFU