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So, amcons, can you explain me what France and Germany's great crime was?

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  • So, amcons, can you explain me what France and Germany's great crime was?

    If I remember correctly, 2002 went something like this. Bush wants to invade Iraq. He wants to gather a 'Coalition of the Willing'. In search for his Coalition, Bush administration speaks about the threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and Iraq's ties to international terrorism.

    France and Germany, being European powers of some importance and parts of the Gulf War coalition, seem like prime candidates for the new coalition, but horror of horrors, they refuse to participate. Furthermore, they oppose the Iraq invasion in the United Nations, even though Colin Powell shows shoddy charts about Iraqi nuclear facilities. Gasp and shudder! Independent nations want to conduct independent foreign policy!

    American conservatives ('Amcons') castigate and ridicule France and Germany, particularly France, as 'weasels', 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys', 'collaborationists' and such and predict that boy will France and Germany be ashamed when U.S. forces find mass quantities of primo nuke material just waiting to be assembled. Bush admin joins in with freedom fries, 'Old Europe,' and other similar anti-European rhetoric.

    Come the 2003. U.S. invades Iraq and, predictably, kicks Saddam's ass. The primo nuke material fails to materialize. And U.S. had Colin Powell's shoddy charts, too! Bush admin pretty much admits that they were wrong about them nukes and blame the spooks.

    Now, this would seem like the perfect opportunity for Amcons to say that hey, maybe France and Germany really had their reasons for not going along - but no. It's still cheese-eating surrender collaborationists this and Kerry the French-looking candidate that.

    What gives?
    "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
    "That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world

  • #2
    America never apoligizes to France. That's what it is there for: to insult and snub.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #3
      Oh, I don't know, maybe because they undermined their own UN resolution by smuggling oil our of Iraq?

      Betraying their own service memebers btw, there are a good number of French shiips enforcing the embargo in the gulf.

      France and Germany's refusal had nothing do do with WMD or terrorism one way or the other. They were beling loyal to their drug dealer.
      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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      • #4
        Uh, the "surrender" and "collaborationist" remarks in re: to France have been ongoing since 1941.

        In short: Blame Hitler.

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        • #5
          France in paticular violated the embargo against Iraq.

          Comment


          • #6
            JohnT, we agree completely. We should blame Bush.
            Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

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            • #7
              I thought it was "amcaps"?
              Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

              It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
              The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

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              • #8
                Good question Stefu- don't expect a coherent answer.
                If you don't like reality, change it! me
                "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dissident
                  France in paticular violated the embargo against Iraq.
                  And that has what to do with Stefu's question?
                  If you don't like reality, change it! me
                  "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                  "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                  "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    France and Germany

                    Their great crime was putting short term political gains ahead of the long term interest of their people.





                    Oh wait, everyone does that.
                    “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                    ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GePap


                      And that has what to do with Stefu's question?
                      that's why I don't like France (goverment)

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                      • #12
                        Flaunting UN resolutions? Coddling dictators for economical gain? Holy crap! I thought all countries conducted their foreign policy with nothing but utmost morality and respect for international organizations!

                        I find that not quite enough a reason to still keep up with the LOLOLOLOLOL FRENCH SURRENDER theme.
                        "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
                        "That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Let's not forget that many Germans had pointy helmets decades ago!
                          Blah

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                          • #14
                            What is best for France and Germany have started to really diverge from what is best for the US. As long as our interests continue to diverge, the US will continue to disparage France and Germany (and vice versa).
                            “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                            ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Uh, the "surrender" and "collaborationist" remarks in re: to France have been ongoing since 1941.
                              Why are we always talking about France surrendering, anyhow?

                              LOLOLOLOL TENNESSEE SURRENDERS
                              "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
                              "That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world

                              Comment

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