So, amcons, can you explain me what France and Germany's great crime was?

[OzzyKP]

There is no good reason for it beyond simply "how dare they disagree, and worse yet, how dare they do so publically. Europe is supposed to be our lapdog." Plus a healthy dose of frankly enjoying picking on the French. Hell, even I thought it was fun and I supported them, hehe.

[mindseye]

Re: So, amcons, can you explain me what France and Germany's great crime was?

Originally posted by Stefu

What gives?

"Capitalist-roader", "counter-revolutionary", "surrender-monkey", "girly-man" ... discredit inconvenient dissent. It's a tactic as old as politics.

And for many Americans ... it worked.

[dojoboy]

Re: So, amcons, can you explain me what France and Germany's great crime was?

Originally posted by Stefu
Now, this would seem like the perfect opportunity for Amcons to say that hey, maybe France and Germany really had their reasons for not going along - but no. It's still cheese-eating surrender collaborationists this and Kerry the French-looking candidate that.

What gives?

First, I certainly will never support a candidate who revels in any other culture but my own.

French and German rational for not going into Iraq was not humanitarian but financial. They would lose investments and debt payments. Their leadership rode the wave of public protestations against the USA. Strictly a powerplay.

Taking out Saddam is a set-up maneuver for the war on terrorism. Gives terror-fighting forces a better locale and protects American, and European, interests. WMDs or not. Who gives a damn? Bill Clinton turned down an offer from the Sudanese to hand over bin Ladin years ago, because an issue over jurisprudence. If George W. fudged the facts to make a safer America, then I'm grateful for it.

[Dis]

you know what upsets me?

The fact that French don't like american culture. They treat our culture as inferior, and I don't like that.

[BeBMan]

So you complain that they do the same as Americans do?

Edit: at least a certain part - to be correct

[MalevolentLight]

Oil for food program...need I say more?

[Dis]

Originally posted by BeBro
So you complain that they do the same as Americans do?

Edit: at least a certain part - to be correct

while you would think that. Because it is true we want our culture to be dominant. But our culture is actually combinations of many cultures. And I think most americans appreciate all the cultural influences in our society. In my city it's that time of year where the greek orthodox church has a greek food festival. It's very popular. It draw very large crowds. I love greek food, and would like to go (but I hate crowds). And it's just not the food I respect of other cultures- I respect everything about them. I respect native american cultures the most though (I am part native american).

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Dissident
you know what upsets me?

The fact that French don't like american culture. They treat our culture as inferior, and I don't like that.

IIRC France is the only country in Europe where McDonalds is making a profit.

[edit] small correction: not only profitable European country, but the most.

[laurentius]

Some americans still have some sense of reality and can be critical about their leaders(fuhrer, il capo) actions.

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/09/11/cost_of_war/index_np.html

[Stefu]

First, I certainly will never support a candidate who revels in any other culture but my own.

And surely the French or Germans can't be expected to do so, either.

French and German rational for not going into Iraq was not humanitarian but financial. They would lose investments and debt payments. Their leadership rode the wave of public protestations against the USA. Strictly a powerplay.

I'm not denying that. However, considering that this applies to most every nation on Earth including the good ol' US of A, I don't see what makes French or German actions particularily protestworthy.

Taking out Saddam is a set-up maneuver for the war on terrorism. Gives terror-fighting forces a better locale and protects American, and European, interests. WMDs or not. Who gives a damn? Bill Clinton turned down an offer from the Sudanese to hand over bin Ladin years ago, because an issue over jurisprudence. If George W. fudged the facts to make a safer America, then I'm grateful for it.

Here in Europeland we do give a damn. Considering that America has been less than forthright in supporting the causes of freedom and democracy, during the Cold War and otherwise, having a defense for American actions other than the standard selfless-knights-in-shining-armor one is always reassuring.

The argument of Iraq War being a set-up maneuver would be more believable if Americans were actually doing more about the terror - namely, having a foreign policy towards Saudi Arabia that consists of something more than BOHICA. And they would be at such a fine locale to do so, too!

Incidentally, the thing about Clinton turning down Sudanese offer is largely mythical. The Sudanese offer was to give Binnie to another government, namely Saudi Arabia or Egypt, and Clinton admin did what they could in persuading the countries to accept - but they didn't. Linkywinky.

And finally, your attitude of it being okeydokey for having your government lie as long as they give out the impression of having noble purposes is somewhat frightening. I wonder if you'll still have the same attitude when the Democrats - inevitably - come to power again in your country and - inevitably - start telling their sweet little lies to advance their agenda.

Oil for food program...need I say more?

In which France wasn't a particularily large participant in.

[Lancer]

We helped them in two world wars. The last one to get rid of a murdering dictator like Hitler. Brave Americans are planted in French soil by the thousand. Yet they put their business relationship with another murdering dictator above doing the right thing.

Still, they are helping in Afganistan so they aren't complete jerks.

[Kropotkin]

Yeah, well, I'm kind of missing the gold old days when I was called a appeaser - you missed that one Stefu - as soon as I expressed a view that didn't involve killing towel heads right and left. *sigh* Those where the days...

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Stefu
I wonder if you'll still have the same attitude when the Democrats - inevitably - come to power again in your country and - inevitably - start telling their sweet little lies to advance their agenda.

Truman dropped the bomb. As long as that party in power wields the sword of retribution, I'm all for it.

Can't get to your link. But, I'm curious to discover the source and read the spin.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Lancer
We helped them in two world wars. The last one to get rid of a murdering dictator like Hitler. Brave Americans are planted in French soil by the thousand. Yet they put their business relationship with another murdering dictator above doing the right thing.

Still, they are helping in Afganistan so they aren't complete jerks.

Why is that a problem, you have been supporting dictators all around the world for ages yourselves! That's not a valid argument

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Stefu


And surely the French or Germans can't be expected to do so, either.

Totally agree.

Originally posted by Stefu
In which France wasn't a particularily large participant in.