So, amcons, can you explain me what France and Germany's great crime was?

[Berzerker]

oh boohoo, if the americans had thought of it first, they would have done it.

We have thought of it...remember Reagan arming the Contras in violation of the UN and calling those terrorists "freedom fighters"? He even compared them to the Founding Fathers?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Ned


Support was not the issue and you know it. France and Germany OPPOSED US policy in Iraq.

And?

[Ted Striker]

Amcons has already been done. It's too much of an imitation.

Try something else.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And actually we may have protested if France went in to overthrow Pinochet. The Falklands is not a good example, because the junta in Argentina was never really our boys, but we didn't explicitly take any sides during the war (which pissed off Thatcher, btw).

You can support that, yes?

IIRC, the USN shifted forces to take up slack for RN assets that were going to the Falklands.

Britain had the tacit approval of the US (and everyone else) even though they told us publically our help was not needed.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by BeBro


And?

And there's a difference between sitting it out and being opposed.

Do you need a map?

[BeBMan]

Yes, there's a difference. Who said otherwise?

[notyoueither]

Be a sport and put up some fight, will you?

[BeBMan]

You mean we should debate whether countries which do not support a US position are a) allowed to say that openly and b) act according to what they think is a better solution (if it really is or not is another question)?

[DaShi]

Well, I think, like most relationships that have gone sour, the problem is communication. Neither sides is, or was, willing to really listen to eachother. Both sides hads conflicting interests, which were not the most noble of the sort. However, rather than just get together and say, "Hey George, we've been making a killing off these embargos, if you attack Iraq, you'll blow the whole deal." and "Look, the economy here is going down faster than my daughters at a frat party, I need something to distract people and squeeze a few dollars of my own out of, plus Iraq is an itch that I've been dying to scratch.", they both tried to posture and blow smoke to cover the truth. They should have just got together and found a way to screw Iraq so that both Europe and the US would benefit.

That's what allies do.

[Stefu]

I doubt we would have tried to prevent France from making a pre-emptive strike on either of these if it served their long term safety.

Suez, 1956?

Stefu, I have no clue why you say the opposition of France and Germany had anything to do with WMDs. Both those countries believed Saddam had them.

The issue, if you remember, was "Let's continue the inspections to be sure about the nukes" vs. "NO! WE KNOW THERE ARE NUKES! COLIN POWELL HAS SHODDY DOCUMENTS! INVASION NOW!"

Amcons has already been done. It's too much of an imitation.

Call it a homage.

[Ted Striker]

fair enough

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by BeBro
You mean we should debate whether countries which do not support a US position are a) allowed to say that openly and b) act according to what they think is a better solution (if it really is or not is another question)?

We might debate what 'allies' should do when they disagree with each other.

The Yanks wanted into Iraq. The French and Germans didn't like that idea. Who was right? The Yanks should have backed off out of respect for French and German wishes, or France and Germany should have just said no and sat it out without creating the big fuss that they did.

All that is clear is that France and the US should in no way be considered allies. Their natures are set to collide, not to coexist. I can see how the EU wants to be independent. That's good. But you have to keep in mind there is a long history of French pissyness in the name of indepedence. If that's what the EU wants to follow, so be it.

[DinoDoc]

I declare this a copy cat thread.

[BeBMan]

There cannot be enough threads about those evil French and Germans

[Ted Striker]

Next up we need a dis thread on Jerry Lewis and Falco (okay he's Austrian but that's close enough).

Actually I like his song, "Jenny"

JEEENNNYYYYY!!!!!! COME ON HOME GIRLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!