Notradamus/Usama bin Ladin

[Kropotkin]

I remember Nostradamus being quoted by some wackos about Saddam Hussein around the time of Gulf war. Nothing's new I guess.

A good prediction is messured in how many ways it can be used, both nostradamus and for example parts of the Bible are great in that regard. there's something in them for everyone that wants a prophety.

[JohnT]

Therefore, if astrologers agree that the cycle begins in 1535 and ends 1889, the end of the cycle is a specific date, not just a random beginning and ending.

But I want to know what a Lunar Cycle of 354 years is and whether or not this cycle actually began on the dates you quoted. Given that an internet full of scientists can't give me or Mercator this information, my contention is that the concept of a 354 year lunar cycle has no basis in scientific terms and is likely a mere convenience based upon one culture's calendar: like the Hebraic calender, which has a year of... 354 days.

And while the quality of information found by Google might be suspect, it is higher on the scale of impartiality and "factuality" than info obtained during a discussion on an internet forum.

Don't you agree?

[Mercator]

@TEF:
But how do you know they studied it? Have you actually read books about it, or is your only source a comment on a webpage?

But yes, I suppose ±10 years isn't too bad, but when does that stop? An awful lot happens in 20 years. I'm pretty sure that, with some good will, you could match plenty more events to that quatrain. You could easily take "pasteur" to mean, pastor, minister, leader, you name it.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Well, it took some searching but I found a few:

The Mystical Chronology is a wonderful little book full of esoteric Christian gems of wisdom. It begins,

"Most wise Emperor, this lower world, created and organized by the First Intelligence, who is god, is ruled by Secondary Intelligences. Hermes, who gave us the science of the Magi (our ancient Chaldean/Sumerian star gazers), confirms this when he says that seven spirits were assigned to the seven planets from the beginning of the heavens and of the earth.

"Each of these Spirits rules the universe in turn for a period of 354 years and 4 months...The first angel or spirit, that of Saturn, is called Oriphiel. God confided the government of the world to him starting with the beginning of creation."

The chronological order is difficult to cipher, since he begins in the first year of the world (book of Genesis), and counts forward in time, so that the first cycle seven rounds is completed on June 26, 2480 and the second cycle of seven rounds is completed on September 1, 4960. Transposing these cycles to our Julian calender, we have the third cycle of:

Oriphiel, from ----------245BC to 109BC;

Anael, from -------------109BC to 463 AD;

Zachariel, from ---------463 to 817;

Raphael, from ----------817 to 1171;

Samael, from -----------1171 to 1525;

Gabriel, from -----------1525 to 1879; and

Michael, the sun spirit beginning 1879.

This is obviously a septenary of Archangelic rule of 354.3 years each, but the cycles do not divide by seven evenly into an astrological age of 2160 years (308.57 years). The cipher makes more sense if a Decan cycle of one-sixth per age of 360 (instead of 720 years) years each is used and then take three Decan cycles of 600 years each (instead of 720 years) and add to it an archangelic cycle of 360 years. Then, this cipher results in our astrological age cycle of 2160 years.

Although troublesome to cipher exactly, the times of the cycle are both accurate and relied upon. Accurate because Dr. Steiner had spoken hundreds of times about the "Battle in Heaven" in the years between 1841 and 1879, wherein the Spirits of Darkness belonging to Ahriman fought the good spirits of Archangel Michael (pronounced, Mic-ha-el), prior to his regency beginning year 1879. Relied upon, because Dr. Steiner devoted and dedicated his whole life's work to the regency of Michael.

http://www.vermontel.net/~vtsophia/zodtrop1.htm

Here's another

http://www.placeoftheskull.com/angeliccycle.html

There does seem to be discrepencies in the years...but calanders of different peoples have different dates.

Here's another, with Hebrew reference:

Let us define a "Grand Year" to be the set of years either from a year 1 NISAN to 1 NISAN or from a year 1 TISHRI to the next 1 TISHRI. Thus, a Grand Year may comprise 353, 354, 355, 383, 384, or 385 years, each being referred to as if it were a day on the Hebrew calendar.

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/020710meridian.html

And finally, a Nostradamus site:

In this model, the existence of the world is divided in periods of 354 years and 4 months, each period ruled by a planet. The first period of 354 years and 4 months is ruled by Saturn, the second by Venus, the third by Jupiter, the fourth by Mercury, the fifth by Mars, the sixth by the Moon and the seventh by the Sun. Then a new series of periods begin, with the first one ruled by Saturn, etc. Roussat took this model from LIBER RATIONUM, written in the 12th century by Abraham Ibn Ezra.

http://cura.free.fr/xxx/26berk2.html

This last one is the one most likely adopted by Nostradamus. 1535 to 1889 would be the "period of the Moon".

So, Nostradamus was going upon this notion. Besides being an astrologer, he was also a Jew who hid from the Spanish Inquisition by "converting" to Catholicism, and is often noted to have combined the two faiths.

Oh, and the googleness was: "354 Years" Lunar Cycle

[JohnT]

1879 != 1889. In prophecy, "close" doesn't count. Or, as they say in sports, a miss is as good as a mile.

The chronological order is difficult to cipher, since he begins in the first year of the world (book of Genesis), and counts forward in time, so that the first cycle seven rounds is completed on June 26, 2480

Excepting the fact that the "first year of the world" as described by Genesis is a mere 4.5 billion years off the real "first year of the world", the timeline given us by your passage makes no sense and isn't relevant to the planet that we live on.

And note the fudging, crimping, and downright hand-waving the guy has to go through in order to make the numbers work:

This is obviously a septenary of Archangelic rule of 354.3 years each, but the cycles do not divide by seven evenly into an astrological age of 2160 years (308.57 years). The cipher makes more sense if a Decan cycle of one-sixth per age of 360 (instead of 720 years) years each is used and then take three Decan cycles of 600 years each (instead of 720 years) and add to it an archangelic cycle of 360 years. Then, this cipher results in our astrological age cycle of 2160 years.

Puh-leeze. And it didn't help your argument to quote the following babble:

Although troublesome to cipher exactly, the times of the cycle are both accurate and relied upon. Accurate because Dr. Steiner had spoken hundreds of times about the "Battle in Heaven" in the years between 1841 and 1879, wherein the Spirits of Darkness belonging to Ahriman fought the good spirits of Archangel Michael (pronounced, Mic-ha-el), prior to his regency beginning year 1879. Relied upon, because Dr. Steiner devoted and dedicated his whole life's work to the regency of Michael.

The calendar's "accuracy" is dependent not upon any observation, empirical or otherwise, but because the originator of the theory spoke a lot about some "Battle in Heaven" that took place in the mid 19th-century? This is evidence?

Btw, here's what I Googled:

354 year great lunar cycle
354.6-year great lunar cycle
353 year long lunar cycle
354 year long lunar cycle

[The Emperor Fabulous]

JohnT: I didn't make astrological numbers. I follow Nostradamus because I feel there is more to the world than what we see. I don't think he's discredited at all by you simply because you don't understand astrology (and neither do I.) Our differing opinions on the subject lead to our differeing opinions on Nostradamus, which I don't at all fault you for, and for which I hope you don't fault me. I'm not going to spend any more time pointlessly bickering about astrological calanders.

[JohnT]

No, he's discredited because his predictions don't come to pass.

[chequita guevara]

Isn't the lunar cycle 28 days?

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Smiley
I'm gonna go get myself a blue turban now.

I've heard the "blue turban" represents the UN. The peacekeepers do wear blue helmets.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Isn't the lunar cycle 28 days?

You're thinking of the menstrual cycle, aka "The Enemy of Man"

[Joseph]

Originally posted by JohnT
Yes, but the anti-Christ isn't supposed to be recognized as such until it's too late.

He also is suppose to end the war between Israel and the Arabs, only to attack after he build a huge military.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by JohnT
No, he's discredited because his predictions don't come to pass.

Why's that? You discredit him simply because you don't leave yourself open to acceptance, as you don't to religion. His predictions aren't good enough for YOU, specifically. Don't assume that since he doesn't work for you he shouldn't work for anyone.

Granted, I'll take what I see in front of my eyes over what the quatrains say, but I take the quatrains for what they are: an attempt by a simple man to indicate where humanity may be headed. Perhaps its a clairvoyant notion, perhaps its a misguided attempt to control the future, but at any rate, his predictions don't NEGATIVELY effect what happens.

[chequita guevara]

Cow, don't be so open-minded your brain falls out the back of your head.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

I've been a Nostradamus fan since 7th grade...what I've learned in the meantime has only backed up my support of Nostradamus, as it has the supernatural and the unprovable. I don't ever have "blind faith", unless you're talking about the Red Sox. I have time and again questioned my faith in the Quatrains, and have continually come back to them in times of stress. At least, unlike organized religion, I don't base my culture upon them.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Cow, don't be so open-minded your brain falls out the back of your head.

Too late.