Well that's the end of rap music!

[alva]

Is "Ice Ice baby" anything like the Queen song in substance? Is Tupac's "changes"?

Of course it isn't, why do you think he tried - succesfully - to rip of Queen Bowie.
Without the riff the song never would have gone anywhere.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

If it were used in an innovative way, the end result would be significantly better than the original...either that or complete crap, in which case it would still be a failure.

[Az]

It's frickin' true -- people with communist ideals don't understand humanity. They're idealists that need to have a dose of realism.

I am very realistic. You can ask anyone from any political ideological discussion ( you know, those you never participate in), from across the spectrum.

I don't know how you cannot consider music theft invalid, unless you're of the camp which thinks that musicians are not human and don't need to eat, too.

Well, glory be, it seems that despite p2p networks, artists are still making more money than ever. Do we really have to go over this? most music I DL I simply can't buy locally.

Yes...

Really? Well, as you claim later, this is not the point of the thread, anyway.

Errm...that's not the point. Incase you forgot, the thread is about the legal implications behind the right get paid when someone steals your work to profit from it.

Oh, this is what the thread is about? because we seem to be mixing these two issues.

If this is the case, I think that this discussion is mostly over. We have different ideologies in mind, it's pointless to argue about it.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Asher
As clearly evidenced by all of the successful, large nations under communism.

This isn't the place for a cap-com debate.

This argument is a bunch of bull because it boils it down to "well it's not theft because the record companies own it".

You keep squirming around whenever your argument gots knocked down. This wasn't your argument. Your argument was that artists need to eat and a place to sleep also. Sampling or downloading music has very little effect on this, since the musicians don't own their own music and thus are not getting ripped off.

It may be stealing, but people aren't stealing from artists and thus your arugment that it's taking food from their mouths is invalid.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Azazel
Is "Ice Ice baby" anything like the Queen song in substance? Is Tupac's "changes"?

First time I heard "Ice,Ice Baby" and several times afteroards, I thought I was gonna hear Under Pressure.

So yes, it is.

ACK!

[Asher]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
This isn't the place for a cap-com debate.

Particularly since it's a joke of a debate. Communists live in a world free of greed, the real world doesn't. Quite simple stuff.

It may be stealing

It is stealing. That is my argument, that is my point, and I thank you for conceding it so ungracefully.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tuberski
First time I heard "Ice,Ice Baby" and several times afteroards, I thought I was gonna hear Under Pressure.

So yes, it is.

ACK!

Exactly...they play Under Pressure a lot at the gym I go to, and at the beginning I keep thinking it's going to be Ice, Ice Baby.

(Different generation)

[Q Classic]

undre pressure >>> ice ice baby.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Azazel
I am very realistic.

How do musicians make money if their work is not sold?

Well, glory be, it seems that despite p2p networks, artists are still making more money than ever. Do we really have to go over this? most music I DL I simply can't buy locally.

This isn't an argument -- artists are making money because people still buy music. If you don't buy music (that is, if it's not illegal to steal it), they would make no money.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Asher
That is my argument, that is my point, and I thank you for conceding it so ungracefully.

It's your fourth argument, after your first three were destroyed. Nice how you claim victory after having already struck out.

[Asher]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's your fourth argument, after your first three were destroyed. Nice how you claim victory after having already struck out.

No, you're just not bright enough to connect the dots.

The overriding argument is music theft is...theft.

You "destroyed" some examples of this argument by saying record companies own the rights to the music, not the musicians, and therefore it was a bad argument. It would be a stunning argument of yours, if you had thought it out a bit more. Who gives the musicians their money in the first place? Hint: it doesn't grow on trees.

No, Che, the entire point of my argument is sampling wholesale is a form of theft. That's what this is about, and that's what you just conceded.

[Buck Birdseed]

dv8ed, my main concern is with the quality of the end product.

I think the most highly evolved "people using other people's music" concept is what's been done in Jamaica for the past 25 years or so. A producer makes a backing track, a "riddim", onto which dozens, sometimes even hundreds of artist record vocal and sometimes additional instrumental tracks.

Neither side in such an arrangement can be said to have been a wholly complete artist in themselves. However, the fierce competetiveness between the producers (who have to get people to make versions on their riddims to make money), the artists (who know there are dozens of others trying to make music on the same backing track, it being really cheap) and the sound systems (ie. DJ sets, who want the best, freshest and most exclusive material for their shows) has constantly hurtled the music forward and got it to scale new heights all the time.

In such a situation does it matter how much the individuals are putting in in terms of artistic contribution?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Asher

How do musicians make money if their work is not sold?

By suing people who can make it sellable?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
undre pressure >>> ice ice baby.

I used to think so, but I listened to Robert Van Winkle when he was on The Surreal World. He's really embarressed by his Vanilla Ice period. He blew up when he roommates kept teasing him about it. Then they ended up at a kareoke bar, and the ladies startd dong the song, and the whole crowd started getting into it, and got him to do the song. It was a lot less processed and sterile and actually kinda fun.

I'm not saying it's art, but it was quite enjoyable.

[Buck Birdseed]

Under pressure sucks, and so does Ice Ice Baby. Mercury and Ice are on the same level of embarassing crapness.

There. Problem solved.