U.S. Death Toll Passes 1000 in Iraq ...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

NM

[Vlad Antlerkov]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
So how many Iraqis have died so far?

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Minimum 11,793, maximum 13,802. That's at least 11,793 too many.

[Lancer]

Some on the left predicted 10,000 dead during the invasion. Whereas a single life lost is a trajedy, what might be accomplished could change the world. A secular democracy in the heart of the arab world, the Iraqis living good and enjoying their freedom and rights, could spread to other nations now suffering under extremist moslem goverments. That might prevent horrors like 9-11 or the massacre of children at that Russian school.

It's a gamble and I like the fact that Bush is willing to take a huge chance to improve things. You don't find that kind of will in politics very often.

[Whaleboy]

This is true, and when you do it's always obscuring some self-centred end.

Iraq will never be a democracy, and if it is, it will probably suck harder than any others. Any benefit to the Iraqis will be one of economic circumstance, something not worth fighting and dying over and in reality, terrorism is on the rise, suffering is on the rise and the Republicans are on the rise

[Lancer]

Oh bite me.

[Winston]

Well said Lancer.

The work that is done by the brave men and women in Iraq has little to do with partisan politics, left or right, re-election or not. They're putting their lives on the line to provide better conditions for an entire nation of people who has been cheated out of so much in the past in terms of freedom and opportunities. Things that we all are lucky enough to take for granted if that's what we choose to...

The troops there, and the ones who've fallen, should be on our mind always. Pointing fingers at eachother comes far down the list. Or it should.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Lancer
Some on the left predicted 10,000 dead during the invasion. Whereas a single life lost is a trajedy, what might be accomplished could change the world. A secular democracy in the heart of the arab world, the Iraqis living good and enjoying their freedom and rights, could spread to other nations now suffering under extremist moslem goverments. That might prevent horrors like 9-11 or the massacre of children at that Russian school.

You are aware that Saddam's government was secular, right? Just making sure.

[Whaleboy]

Winston: Sorry but everytime I hear that regurgitated bull**** I have to laugh

[Drake Tungsten]

American combat losses continue at a historically low level. Since March, 2003, American troops have suffered 7,900 casualties (including 976 dead.) This is an unprecedented killed to wounded ratio of 1:8. In past wars, the ration had been 1:4 or 1:5. American combat deaths over the Summer were 42 in June, 54 in July and 66 in August. There are the equivalent of three American combat divisions in Iraq, each running several hundred patrols and other combat operations each day. Never have combat divisions, operating in hostile territory, kept their casualties this low. The news media, concentrating on any losses as the story have generally missed the historical significance of the low casualties. The American armed forces have developed new equipment, weapons and tactics that have transformed combat operations in an unprecedented way. This is recognized within the military, but is generally ignored, or misunderstood, by the general media.

http://www.strategypage.com//fyeo/qndguide/default.asp?target=IRAQ.HTM

For the Chicken Littles and MtG, who should know better...

[Winston]

Yes, have a ball Whaleboy. Put in some dancing smilies as well in celebration of this fabulous milestone which seems to be entertaining you so.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
And we're close on 7,000 wounded, but Bush/Iraq apologists will say that everything's going fine and 8,000 casualties is nothing.

A certain amount of complacency and ignorance runs deep in this forum. We were right going into Iraq, and now there is a new government there. What was not seen as progress, is that Sadr layed down his weapons and told his insurgents to stop all attacks. Bush is going to get re-elected I predict, with a comfortable lead too.

I think that you liberals and leftists should stop celebrating the death of soldiers, and accept the fact that you were wrong about Iraq.

In the last few months, casualities have been way down. Thanks for that article, Drake. For people as ignorant as Whaleboy, they will never realize the truth, yes Iraq can be a democracy. And the Republicans are getting the upper hand in the re-election because people realize that John Kerry would let another terrorist attack happen (if he were elected, we would get warped back to the pre-9/11 thinking).

[Lancer]

Winston, thanks. I wish we lived in a time where the American public was patriotic and got behind the president in time of war, but we don't. People like Whaleboy view this national effort to disrupt the Islamic terrorist culture as political oportunity because they are political oportunists, and screw the country...

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Lancer
Some on the left predicted 10,000 dead during the invasion. Whereas a single life lost is a trajedy, what might be accomplished could change the world. A secular democracy in the heart of the arab world, the Iraqis living good and enjoying their freedom and rights, could spread to other nations now suffering under extremist moslem goverments. That might prevent horrors like 9-11 or the massacre of children at that Russian school.

Well, they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Insofar as I'm concerned, "might be" and "intentions" don't add up to "reality." If this is how my nation intends to handle the majority of foreign affairs in the future, the military is going to be busy spreading "possibilities" to much of the world, isn't it? Tsk. It's too bad not all places in the world follow the post-U.S. Civil War and post-World War II models of behavior after the "mission accomplished" banner has been hoisted.

It's a gamble and I like the fact that Bush is willing to take a huge chance to improve things. You don't find that kind of will in politics very often.

Honest question: Did you support U.S./NATO military action in the Balkans in order to put Milosevic in his place? After all, that, too, was a "huge chance" to improve things. It's certainly better in that part of the world now than in the mid-1990s (and Iraq will be lucky to be like that in five years), but I distinctly remember a lot of conservatives and right-wingers going on and on about how we had no business being there.

Saddam's a bastard. But so too are a lot of other folks in the world, some of which (North Korea and Iran come to mind) are a lot closer to being able to give us a real black eye than Iraq ever was post Gulf War I. Eh. I suppose we can give everybody a "Get Out of Jail Free" card by blaming faulty intelligence. Someone's gotta take the fall; why not some anonymous analyst in a cubby hole in some anonymous government building somewhere.

Gatekeeper

[Whaleboy]

Yes, have a ball Whaleboy. Put in some dancing smilies as well in celebration of this fabulous milestone which seems to be entertaining you so.

What am I supposed to be upset? Don't act like you're no different to me, I couldn't care less!!! I didn't know them, I didn't love them, as far as I'm concerned their statistics. Statistics that vindicate me! Thats cause for a toast .

Whaleboy view this national effort to disrupt the Islamic terrorist culture as political oportunity because they are political oportunists, and screw the country...

People like Whaleboy view this entire conflict as a means of securing popularity, increasing governmental power (Caesar, Goering) and the chances of re-election, while increasing economic and political influence, while terrorism escalates. What exactly does Iraq have to do with Al Qaeda, except at most a new recruiting ground thanks to the botched occupation. Political opportunists? I've been saying this all along.

You wont understand my argument, because you are bounded by the constraining, emotive bull**** profundity called "morality" that is used in all nationalistic or hawkish arguments to justify war with absolutely no critical basis. In truth, advocates of the war are just as sappy as the victims of that conflict, except those that choose to fight were so stupid they would actually pick up a gun and kill for their leaders.

As for screwing your country, dont you have a chastity belt to be polishing?

[Giancarlo]

Actually it will be reality and I will say that with almost certainty. I do see Iraq getting better. But you liberals just don't realize you can't fix a country overnight.. but hey.. if it isn't fixed overnight or if Bill Clinton didn't do it, it is wrong. I hate your complacency, gatekeeper. Such a great word that sums up all about you on the other side.