John Kerry the Betrayer: Unfit to Command, part 3

[Ned]

Molly, I really love such quotes as these from Chris H's anti-Kissinger book,

"Nearly 4 million tons of bombs were dropped on the people of Southeast Asia while Kissinger orchestrated the war,"

Note the target. The bombs were dropped on the "people of SE Asia...."

It is almost as if the Americans were wantonly attacking friend, foe, civilian, dog and cat alike.

Such phraseology makes your arguments ludicrous.

[MRT144]

im 20 first off. too old to remember my age or too senile? on the internet you can say "ill face you in real life boy" and get away with it.

you know im not going to napa to have a "showdown" with some old coot who has a chip on his soulder because he has more experience in life.

You just need to get called out when you use your age as some sort of arguement.

[Lincoln]

Ogie, they will not believe any evidence unless is is approved by moveon.org or democrats.com. Besides the article you posted agrees that Kerry's own diary is not proof of anything because Kerry cannot be trusted to tell the truth even to his diary(my paraphrase)!

[MRT144]

lincoln isnt that a universal statement about anyone who is a truebeliever? republicans will not believe any evidence against republicans unless its on fox news, etc etc.

the truth is theres no point listening or speaking to the people who are truebelievers. its a waste of space and time. On the other hand revealing these truths is quite entertaining and interesting

[Lincoln]

Yes, there are a few people who actually would like to know the truth. But let's wait and see what the true believers say about the diary entriy Kerry made.

[Jon Miller]

is it true that it doesn't matter if the wound came about by freindly/accidental fire?

I don't know much about these things, but it seems to be important

Jon Miller
(won't really change my mind on Kerry, just like Bush using drugs didn't make me think negatively of Bush)

[Ned]

Jon, so long as there is combat, it makes no difference if the wound is self inflicted, from my understanding. Thus it was critical that there be enemy fire that night.

His crewmen remember no enemy fire.

His doctor reports that the crewman said that Kerry wounded himself with an M79 grenade that landed to close to the boat. Kerry had a different story about being wounded when he was reaching for another M16.

Kerry's diary reports 8 days later that he still had not been fired upon in combat.

[Ned]

Here is a new ad by a different group that alleges that Kerry participated in a plot to assassinate pro-war senators.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.org/video/kerry.wmv

[notyoueither]

What part did he play in crucifying Christ?

[Ned]

New LA TIMES Poll: Kerry hurt by Swift Boat attacks, Bush ahead 49% -46% for the first time this year, Bush takes 15% of all Democrats, 20% of 'conservative/moderate' Democrats while Kerry takes 3% of Republicans...

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by notyoueither
What part did he play in crucifying Christ?

Depends on your denomination.

[Ned]

Kerry is now asking for a "criminal" investigation of Bush's relationship to the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth.

[DinoDoc]

Hysterical reactions serve no one but Bush.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ned
Molly, I really love such quotes as these from Chris H's anti-Kissinger book,

"Nearly 4 million tons of bombs were dropped on the people of Southeast Asia while Kissinger orchestrated the war,"

Note the target. The bombs were dropped on the "people of SE Asia...."

It is almost as if the Americans were wantonly attacking friend, foe, civilian, dog and cat alike.

Such phraseology makes your arguments ludicrous.

Gosh.

I've certainly never heard of friendly fire incidents involving American forces.


Never. Ever.

And never ever heard of American aeroplanes dropping bombs on civilians.


Like in Dresden and Tokyo.

No, never.






You'll note that one of the people Hitchens quotes states that when asked if he checked any CIVILIANS were going to be under the bombs, he answers no, just any C.I.A. teams.

Your arguments so far have shied away again and again from the bald statements of fact- American forces (as noted by the one of the American prosecuting counsels at the Nuremberg War Crimes' Trials, Ned- I suppose he's anti-Kissinger too?) rained down explosives on targets heedless of whether they were military targets or not.


Kissinger knew it, and admits it. Nixon knew it, the pilots knew it, but you still seem to have trouble 'knowing' it today.


Given that you haven't accustomed yourself to the fact that Americans did the same thing in WWII, I suspect you'll be at least 90 or thereabouts before you realize that in war, previously good people can do bad things.

I mean seriously, do you think American napalm burns in a friendlier, kinder way than other forces' napalm?

Or that perhaps it can intelligently choose targets?

That's science fiction, as of yet, Ned.

That American anti-personnel mines have moral scruples about not taking off children's legs?

Not so far, Ned.


Get a reality check Ned.

I love the way you say Hitchens's 'anti-Kissinger book'- as if that's somehow a bad thing.




What's your next career move- publicist for serial killers?

[Bosh]

Oh looks like Kerry isn't the only one BSing about being in Cambodia. Although Kerry isn't looking good, things keep looking worse for his accusers every day.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=1&u=/ap/20040825/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_critic_swift_boats

Swift Boat Writer Lied on Cambodia Claim

Wed Aug 25, 7:17 PM ET

By ELIZABETH WOLFE, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The chief critic of John Kerry military record told President Nixon in 1971 that he had been in Cambodia in a swift boat during the Vietnam War ?a claim at odds with his recent statements that he was not.



"I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border," said John E. O'Neill in a conversation that was taped by the former president's secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md.


In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O'Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia.


"I think I made it very clear that I was on the border, which is exactly where I was for three months. I was about 100 yards from Cambodia," O'Neill said in clarifying the June 16, 1971, conversation with Nixon.


Chad Clanton, a spokesman for the Democratic presidential candidate, said the tape "is just the latest in a long line of lies and false statements from a group trying to smear John Kerry's military service. Again, they're being proven liars with their own words. It's time for President Bush to stand up and specifically condemn this smear."

O'Neill served in Vietnam from 1969-70 and says in a recent book that he took command of Kerry's swift boat after the future Massachusetts senator returned home from the war.


O'Neill has emerged as a leading figure in the attacks on Kerry's war record. He is co-author of "Unfit for Command," which accuses Kerry of lying about his record, and is a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which has aired two television commercials harshly critical of Kerry.


In the book, O'Neill wrote that Kerry's accounts of having been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve of 1968 "are complete lies."


"... Kerry was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there," he wrote. O'Neill wrote that the Navy positioned its own craft along the border area to make sure no American vessels strayed across the border from Vietnam.


In an interview Sunday on ABC's "This Week" O'Neill said: "Our boats didn't go north of, only slightly north of Sedek," which he said was about 50 miles from the Cambodian border.


Kerry's campaign has acknowledged that he may not have been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve of 1968, as he has previously stated. The campaign says Kerry does recall being on patrol along the Cambodia-Vietnam border on that date, although it's unclear if he crossed into Cambodia.


Referring to the tape of the Oval Office meeting with Nixon, O'Neill criticized Kerry for making claims, including in the Senate, that he was in Cambodia.


"I've never represented on the floor of the Senate, or told people 50 times like John Kerry did that I was in Cambodia. That never happened. And I don't think he was ever there either," O'Neill said.


The snippet of taped conversation surfaced after more than a week of controversy surrounding claims that Kerry lied about his actions in a war in which he won five military medals. The Democrat and his allies have vigorously attacked such claims as a smear, laboring to undermine the charges as well as cast doubt on the men who are making them.


For his part, Kerry accused the swift boat group of being a "front group" that was doing Bush's dirty work.


The Bush campaign denies any involvement with Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.


___





Associated Press writer Jennifer C. Kerr contributed to this report.