Rallying Point: Liberty Island - Refugees from Kidatopia, report!

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious


In other words, until you establish a hierarchy of power no one can exploit each other. In the mean time there will be a struggle for power and the ownership of the means of production. The loser will dig all of the ditches.

Actually, we want to exploit each other to establish our island. There need be no struggle, as the ditch digger will be the first one to smuggle in a backhoe, and he'll probably get rich digging.

[Velociryx]

Oh...and for clarification....we're not revolutionaries...we're refugees.

There IS no government on this island, so we're not replacing anything.

Rather, we're building something from scratch.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Once the first person gets a bit of a knack for putting basic tools together, then he'll have something to barter with....and the show begins.

No need to fight over it...everybody will need lots of different stuff, so if you're not a good tool maker, it doesn't matter. You can barter what you CAN make for some tools.

Me thinks once the first tool is built the libertarians will bring out the guns.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Solomwi


Actually, we want to exploit each other to establish our island. There need be no struggle, as the ditch digger will be the first one to smuggle in a backhoe, and he'll probably get rich digging.

Yeah, because it always happens in capitalist systems like that, NOT!

[Velociryx]

well Kid...had we NOT wanted to exploit each other (to keep using your language), we would have just stayed where it was all nice and fair, in Kidatopia....

-=Vel=-

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Yeah, because it always happens in capitalist systems like that, NOT!

IOW, canned response #2.

No, sometimes the guy spends his life savings on a backhoe, then goes broke because he has no business acumen, misjudged the market grossly, or the backhoe broke down on him and he couldn't afford the downtime. That's the beauty of the system. OTOH, there are plenty of capitalists who have gotten filthy rich digging ditches.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
well Kid...had we NOT wanted to exploit each other (to keep using your language), we would have just stayed where it was all nice and fair, in Kidatopia....

-=Vel=-

Ah but what happens when someone becomes the exploited instead of the exploiter? That's when the guns come into play, if not sooner.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Solomwi
OTOH, there are plenty of capitalists who have gotten filthy rich digging ditches.

That's the best yet.

[Velociryx]

Solomwi, you shamelessly exploitive b@stard... G'morning!

Kid, we're all here (with the possible exception of JM) because we WANT to be exploited! Don't you get it!

We know how the system works, and we're okay with it.

That's the GOAL, you doof.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

and since I already volunteered to dig ditches, and I WANT to be exploited, what on earth makes you think I'm gonna take up a gun?

I hope they exploit the hell out of me, cos I intend to retire fat and happy....

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Kid, we're all here (with the possible exception of JM) because we WANT to be exploited! Don't you get it!

Why don't you just come over to my house. I have plenty of work for you to do, and I won't pay you much at all.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I always wondered if an Ayn Rand society ala "Atlas Shrugged" would work.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious




That's the best yet.

So you dispute the notion?

Uhh, I used to work for one who did just that. There's a lot of money to be made in making a hole or ditch where there was dirt, Kid.

Morning, Vel, and here's hoping you exploit me to stake the ditches for you. I've done a bit of surveying in my time.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
and since I already volunteered to dig ditches, and I WANT to be exploited, what on earth makes you think I'm gonna take up a gun?

I hope they exploit the hell out of me, cos I intend to retire fat and happy....

-=Vel=-

You're going to do all the **** work for everybody and be the Big Kahuna at the same time? Do you have any comprehension about how human society works at all? How do you think you are going to feel while you are digging the ditches while everyone else is planning ditches for you to dig?

[Flubber]

Guys as one of the founders of this idea, I think I may have to find a different island LOL . Aside from the gypsey harem making Mrs Flubbder uncomfortable, this is going far too communal for my tastes. A few points to bring it back to its roots .. ..

1. As good capitalist planners, we should forsee the demand for an island with various supplies and maintain an inventory. My idea is that we stash a fair bit of stuff on a small power vessel and tow a small barge. I don't think we need to be as bad off as survivor. If I liquidated my cash assets in advance of the kidolution, I should have no problem obtaining the things I list

2. Kid will require time to consolidate power and we should be able to make our getaway in that time. After all , the captain of the aircraft carrier is going to be plenty peeved at his loss of status and the pilots will be incensed to find they have to take a turn swabbing the deck since flight planning is not work. We should have time to establish ourselves irrespective of what Kid thinks. I work on the assumption that he is too busy calming the horror he calls a free society to care what we do.



3. So I'm proposing the Liberty Capitalist Company. Share Capital is available for subscription by barter. No person is obligated to join and in fact they can set up competing businesses. In fact I fully expect most people to be shareholders in LCC but to also have their own private businesses that deal with either LCC or individuals. However if LCC can obtain sufficient assets through the initial share subscription, it would hope to be able to offer significant employment prospects.

4. Fields will not be "communal" but will operate on good capitalistic principles. If everyone just so happens to own equal shareholdings in LCC or whatever entity owns those fields, well thats still capitalism. Someone may decide to own a plow in their own business entity Others can rent the plow or grant a royalty... all based on negotiation and free will.

.

I hope thereafter to receive offers for shares of LCC. I would also look forward to the marketing plans of others indicating the services that they will be able to provide at a fair price.

Think hard about what you bring because if there is little demand for your services, your business entity will not prosper...


OH

Flubberco has determined that its primary business will be fishing. Its assets will be a 12 ft aluminum boat with oars, 3 fishing rods, 300 hooks, 3000 ft of 20 pound test, 2 dip nets, 3 crab pots and a small seine. products available will include fresh, smoked and salted fish in a variety of species.

All will be available for fruit, vegetables or electricity or for services

All equipment will be available for rental on reasonable terms or for a proportion of the catch


In LCC I am issuing 100 shares to Flubber-- In return for those shares I am providing

2 dozen egg laying chickens
3 roosters
2 pair of rabbits
2 shovels
1 pickaxe
I maddox
2 rakes
1 hoe
2 watering cans
200 feet of rope
2 hammers
1 bucksaw
6 10' x 20' tarps



I haven't written the constitution of the LCC yet but the idea is that the bulk of the earnings of the company shall be distributed to the shareholders in proportion to their shareholding. A special resoultion would be required (75%) to retain earnings beyond 10% of production for expansion.


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The beauty of capitalism is that everyone CAN choose to join LCC or not free choice. If everyone joins, it may look somewhat communal in effect but the reality will be that it is always open to someone to buy out someone else. For example vel might decide he's the best fisherman around and have set up a competing fishing business. In that case it might be worthwhile for Vel to trade his LCC stock for my fishing assets to add to his own. Then he could trade his fish for our fruits veggies and eggs.

Strill stuff to work out here like should the government regulate agriculture by assigning plots or putting them up for bids. the other option is allow business entities to claim land by staking it-- still much to discuss here