John Kerry the war criminal: Unfit to command, part 2

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Lincoln


Especially when Kerry (the man really in question in light of the office he wishes to hold) has already been caught in several lies. See Drakes signature for one of them.

Alleged 'lie', isn't it?


Or are you saying that whatever Kerry states is automatically a lie, and that whatever his detractors say is automatically the truth?


Because that's what it sounds like from here.


His detractors are just as much to be questioned over the veracity of their 'claims' and 'allegations'- I fail to see why they should be held to a lesser burden of proof just because they're not running for public office.

What you're proposing amounts to a free for all for muck slingers and libellers.

You must be thinking of Murdoch's media empire.....

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow
...

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident.

This guy keeps digging himself deeper in the hole. A boat under his command gets blown out of the water. Crew members get injured. And he doesn't file any report? MTG is right. The BS alarms should be ringing loud and clear.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Tingkai


This guy keeps digging himself deeper in the hole. A boat under his command gets blown out of the water. Crew members get injured. And he doesn't file any report? MTG is right. The BS alarms should be ringing loud and clear.

If I remember correctly, an After Action Report is file when you engage the enemy and not when you hit a mine. A damage report would be file, also an injury report would be file, but by the medical staff and not the CO of a boat. The Engineer of the boat would file the damage report and the Capt. would just sign it off, so that he know the report was filed. This is the Navy and Capt. do not file that many reports, other do it and he sign them so he know that the report were completed.

[notyoueither]

It is strange that an AAR would be accepted from a subordinate in a squadron without any backup from OiC or CO, isn't it?

The thing that sticks out for me is that it is suggested that Kerry was able to write his own ticket to honours and out of the war as a relatively junior ranking officer. Is/was the American military that... disorganised?

Something, somewhere stuck out. Paperwork was filed at a later date for some of the PHs (that's what I picked up, could be wrong). How did that happen? Did Kerry connect with a more senior officer at some point who could put stuff through?

All that's clear is that nothing is clear. I doubt Kerry is going to escape this without allowing the release of the records. It's not going to go away if he wins. It'll just carry along for at least another 4 years until after he faces re-election (at the earliest). In the meantime, being slagged by ex-POWs sure isn't gonna help the cause. Ouch.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Is/was the American military that... disorganised?

During the Vietnam War, yes.

[notyoueither]

That could almost be described as FUBAR.

[chequita guevara]

The military was trying a new industrial management system of warfare, with multiple layers of bureaucracy and lots of careerism on the part of officers. Check out The Perfect War, by Gibson.

[notyoueither]

I don't read many books recommended on Apolyton, but I might look that one up.

I can't imagine a Brit typing up a nice letter and expecting the DSO or VC to come back by return mail.

[Ned]

Molly, it not just he said, she said. It is 250 to 1. In every questioned incident, almost everyone who was there states that Kerry's version of events is wrong in critical aspects. Kerry's ONLY supporter (to date) is the Army officer that was blown off the boat and was bobbing in the water while Kerry fled and who Kerry rescued when he cam back. He states that there was fire from both banks.

The question is, why would so many officers, virtually all of them who were there at the time, dispute Kerry's version of events and have the same negative impression of him? It is hard to believe that so many would lie while the one they accuse of fraud is the only person telling the truth.

[Ramo]

Actually 9 out of the 10 living shipmates of Kerry support him and are campaigning for him. Why do you take the word of men who have never served in Kerry's boat, over those who have served in his boat?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
Actually 9 out of the 10 living shipmates of Kerry support him and are campaigning for him. Why do you take the word of men who have never served in Kerry's boat, over those who have served in his boat?

Perhaps. But do they corroborate Kerry's version of critical events? The ONLY person I have seen come to Kerry's defense is Rasmann (sp?).

[Ramo]

Yes, Ned. The actual people who served with him thought that he was an incompetent officer who fabricated his military honors, so they're almost unanimously supporting him for President.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Ramo
Actually 9 out of the 10 living shipmates of Kerry support him and are campaigning for him. Why do you take the word of men who have never served in Kerry's boat, over those who have served in his boat?

I keep hearing this. I also keep hearing that the boat crews were rotated fairly often.

If both are true, either Kerry's boats (he commanded two, right?) had high casualty rates, or were severely undercrewed.

[Agathon]

I love this. Max Cleland gets compared with Osama, McCain is smeared in the most disgusting fashion imaginable, and you believe this crap about Kerry?

Good Lord...

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Alleged 'lie', isn't it?


Or are you saying that whatever Kerry states is automatically a lie, and that whatever his detractors say is automatically the truth?


Because that's what it sounds like from here.


His detractors are just as much to be questioned over the veracity of their 'claims' and 'allegations'- I fail to see why they should be held to a lesser burden of proof just because they're not running for public office.

What you're proposing amounts to a free for all for muck slingers and libellers.

You must be thinking of Murdoch's media empire.....

No, actually I was thinking of the Kerry spin team. Anyway have you read Drake's signature? Do you really think that he forgot what he was doing on Christmas eve? Have you ever been in the military and away from home on Christmas eve? Ask a military man if you don't know. Even atheists know what they were doing on Christmas eve. Would you say something was 'seared' in your memory if it wasn't? The man is a liar regardless of the spin Kerry's spin team puts on his fabrications.