John Kerry the war criminal: Unfit to command, part 2

[Lincoln]

Hi everyone. This is a continuation of the thread by the same name only without the "war criminal" part. I just heard an old interview Kerry did on the Dick Cavet show in 19 71 (or there about) admitting that he took part in war crimes in the Vietnam war. Shoud he be tried by the international criminal court? Why would being a war criminal make him a good commander and chief -- because he admitted it?

[Pekka]

[MichaeltheGreat]

IIRC, Kerry's issue wrt his involvement in "war crimes" was with operating in free fire zones, something my brother also did a lot of.

Whether the US likes it or not, designating an entire geographic area as a "free fire zone" where anything and anybody may be fired on at will with no attempt to identify whether or not they are combatants is a violation of the laws and customs of land warfare.

Still beats a drunken coke-head who had to miss his flight physical to avoid getting busted.

Carry on.

[Wiglaf]

He burned villages.

Edit: Source -- http://cvilleindymedia.org/newswire.php?story_id=251

Kerry's words: ""Yes, I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed," Kerry said in the sound bite. "I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages."

[DinoDoc]

I guess MtG didn't understand correctly.

[Kuciwalker]

MtG, please kill this thread. Pretend it's hit 500 posts. Please?

[Winston]

Oh no! Our beloved Emperor hopeful isn't wearing anything!!

Close this thread immediately please!!111!OMG

[notyoueither]

Isn't it annoying when people say the stupidest things about the guy you favour?

[mrmitchell]

What is Wiglaf doing at Indymedia, anyway?

I demand a FOXNEWS link Wiglaf!

[DRoseDARs]

Oh dear, looks like the Washington Post is calling Mr. Thurlow on his bullsh*t. Damn liberal media.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic&cid=694&ncid=716

Military Documents Contradict Kerry Critic

1 hour, 11 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Military records appear to contradict claims by a vocal critic of Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) that the Democratic presidential candidate lied about coming under gunfire during a mission in Vietnam, according to The Washington Post.

The newly obtained records of Larry Thurlow show that he, like Kerry, won a Bronze Star for the same engagement and that Thurlow's citation said he came under "constant small arms fire," the newspaper reported Thursday.

Thurlow, also like Kerry, commanded a Navy Swift boat during the war. Thurlow swore in an affidavit last month that Kerry was "not under fire" when he rescued Lt. James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River.

Thurlow's records, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of Information Act, include references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at all five boats in the flotilla that day. In his Bronze Star citation, Thurlow is praised for helping a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

Thurlow is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans who have aired a television advertisement attacking Kerry's war record.

Kerry has described how his boat came under fire from the river banks after a mine explosion disabled another U.S. Swift boat. Kerry and members of his crew say the firing continued as Kerry leaned over to fish out Rassman, who was blown overboard in another explosion.

Thurlow described Kerry's Bronze Star citation as "totally fabricated," saying "I never heard a shot."

Thurlow, a registered Republican, said he is angry with Kerry for his antiwar activities after his return to the United States, especially his claim that U.S. troops committed war crimes with the knowledge of their officers up the chain of command.

Thurlow told the Post that he got the award for helping to rescue the boat that was mined.

"This casts doubt on anybody's awards," he said. "It is sickening and disgusting."

He said he believed his award would be fraudulent if it was based on coming under enemy fire.

"We weren't under fire," he insisted.

Thurlow said he lost his Bronze Star citation more than 20 years ago. He said he would not authorize release of his military records because he feared the Kerry campaign would discredit him.

Members of Kerry's crew have said Kerry is telling the truth. Rassman said he has vivid memories of enemies firing at him from both banks.

*********

Bolded: Methinks THE RECORDS and the testimony of other servicemen discredit you Mr. Thurlow all by themselves. John Kerry's campaign doesn't have to do diddly to acheive that.

[Kidlicious]

This is incredible. The man served his country. It's wrong to attack him like this.

[Sikander]

He's the one who claimed that he was a war criminal, while generously tarring an entire generation of American soldiers with the same brush. Read up on his organization Vietnam Veterans against the War and the collection of radicals and frauds that formed its leadership, and the sh!t they were claiming. Note how members of this group were meeting fairly regularly with the enemy outside of the U.S. for the purposes of coordinating their messages and providing propoganda copy for the communists. Note the bewildering array of statements made by members of the group, many which sound like they were delivered by POWs and written by their North Vietnamese guards. Kerry was plain wack to have anything to do with these people, much less be the legitimate face of their organization.

What I am confused by is how does a guy earn 3 purple hearts and two commendations for valor in a four month tour of Vietnam, one month of which was spent training and becoming familiar with the assignment? How do two wounds worthy of purple hearts allow immediate return to duty? How does a wound for which he applied for a purple heart (and was turned down cold by his C.O. because it was only a scratch) suddenly get retroactively and mysteriously approved just in time to send him home under the "three strikes" rule? I'm sure his previous connections with the Kennedy's had nothing to do with it, or with his posting to New York City as an admiral's aide immediately afterward, or his being let out of the service early in order to pursue political activities. Nope, that's not how things work in the military.

He went to war when many others of his class refused, and for that he should be commended. But touting himself as a war hero so ceaselessly in order to mitigate the damage he himself did to his reputation immediately after the war makes his war record fair game. As he still refuses to make his military records available for scrutiny we must try to read the tea leaves.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious
This is incredible. The man served his country. It's wrong to attack him like this.

I agree Thurlow shouldn't be attacked.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Sikander
He's the one who claimed that he was a war criminal, while generously tarring an entire generation of American soldiers with the same brush. Read up on his organization Vietnam Veterans against the War and the collection of radicals and frauds ...

You're doing what you complain about others doing. You're tarring an entire generation of American soldiers who decided the war was wrong after serving in Vietnam.

Yes, there were radicals and probably frauds within the anti-war movement. Many of them left, including Kerry, when the organisation became more radical.

But to say that they were all radicals and frauds is simply wrong. It's just like the fact that while American soldiers committed atrocities, not everyone of them did.

Originally posted by Sikander
As he still refuses to make his military records available for scrutiny we must try to read the tea leaves.

From the Kerry website:
When the U.S. Navy sent Kerry his official Naval records, his military medical records were not included. Kerry reconstituted the military medical records from his personal files.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0423b.html

[Ned]

I understand from watching FOX yesterday that the Swiftboat Vets ad is causing Kerry significant damage in swing states where it is airing.

Also, the book is headed to the top of the NYTimes bestsellers list.

News like this is hard to suppress. Sooner or later, the major media are going to have to address the issues raised by Kerry's fellow officers.