Price Gouging - Fair and balanced, or unfair

[Flubber]

Oh and kid

the reason I abhor your proposals are the same reason I hated working I hated working in a union environment and for government-- too rules bound

While in government I worked my ass off through a weekend ( probably put in 16 hours-- for no additional pay of course) to get a project completed. My supervisor ( another lawyer) told me to take off an afternoon or two off. So a few days later I did. next day the human resources drone came by wondering where my form was for my leave the previous day so she could dock it from my annual leave. My boss ended up calling her and telling her I was at a meeting. But he had to circumvent the rules.

Also I routinely worked a couple of extra hours. My boss knew this and routinely praised me for it. But at raise time I got the same 3.26% raise as everyone else did. Within 18 months I was looking for a different job and my efforts started to go down. Being treated like everyone else regardless of your skills and effort was demotivating . .. heck it was depressing.


You see, the central planners can't individualize anything and the result is a sytem that ends up with people doing the minimum. Check it out

Go to a government office anywhere and see how many people are there 10 minutes after quitting time. Then check private industry.Observe the difference

[Velociryx]

Kid, Flubber covered my complaints of your system pretty well, but what the heck, I'll chime in too.

1) Stop saying that I'm trying to control you.
You want to tell me where I can and cannot work, how much I get paid, what I can and cannot do with things I invent, and what I can own. But you're not trying to control me? What would you call it? Justice?

2) we should both be required to put in equal amounts of work and recieve equal compensation.

First, your definition of the word "work" is wrong.

Work is not merely physical labor. Work is thinking, designing, creating, analyzing....and a helluva lot more.

I write books. That's work. If you do not believe it, then you have never tried. Try, and you'll quickly change your mind. That's a promise.

But under your system, physicial labor is the only thing that counts. A ditch digger "works more" than a book writer. So he'd have to get compensated more, right?

And how are you gonna compare that, anyway? Caloric burn rate? Do we get paid by the calorie we burn off? If so, sign me up as a People's Sex Worker, please!

I agree...if we're doing the same job, and have the same level of skill AT that job, then the equal work for equal pay mantra works well. The women's movement has used it for years, and I agree with it completely, but that's not what you want.

In your world, its all backwards. The least skilled workers get paid more...why? Because they have to "work harder" to get the same job done.

Why would anybody use a bulldozer to dig a ditch? I can work a LOT harder by using a shovel, or for that matter, a toothpick, so if we're being paid for amount of work put into a project, then hand me that toothpick and get out of my way! Or are you going to send a People's Job Methodology Inspector by to MAKE me use a bulldozer (but, you know, in a non-controlling way).

Our complaint is that we have to work harder than others.

As soon as you begin using a realistic system of the definition of work, we can begin to have serious discussions about this topic. For the moment, your only position is that sweat-labor is work, and the rest is....fluff. At best. And you could not be more incorrect.

As to your having to work harder than me....I doubt that. We can compare notes any time you like, but you'll probably be disappointed.

3) But yeah. Let's say wages are universally set at $15 per hour. Would YOU go out for a People's Happy Meal? It'd be so expensive that if you did, you could MAYBE afford to do it once a month.

4) (posted by Flubber) The name Stalin never was mentioned once by me . . . but if you want to

1. FORCE me to do work a job you determine for a wage you determine and

2. Take any innovations of mine and appropriate them to the state

then you are proposing a totalitarian state

Exactly. Where is the democratic element of this? Please feel free to point it out to me.

5) We want to make it fair.
And who decides what is "fair" - the handful of people (you included) on the central planning committee, who dictate "fairness" from on high, and use "terrible and swift blows" to mete out "justice" against anyone who disagrees? VERY democratic.

Or, is fairness decided by global vote? If so, what happens when the People disagree with the Central Planning Committee about what's fair? Do you cry foul and demand a do-over, or just do some more "terrible and swift blows" on those counter-revolutionaries who are thinking improperly?

There are lots of others, but it's first thing in the morning, and I"m not fully awake yet.

Still, that's a decent start.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

A FANTASTIC quote from Berserker:
There's something seriously wrong with an ideology that depends on convincing unbelievers they are the victims of exploitation and punishing them for not being convinced. It's like religious fundies and feminists telling porn stars they are being exploited and outlawing their jobs so they can make less money flipping burgers in the coming Great Society...

And some more zingers from Kid:
If I say I want to force you to work
&
we should both be required to put in equal amounts of work and recieve equal compensation

You really don't see it, do you Kid? You don't understand why we have a problem with YOU *forcing* us to do something.

You pushing your views of justice, equality, and fairness onto us, when it's obvious that we have differing views.

There are four of us arguing against you and your supporters abandoned you.

If our thread population was a microcosm of your democratic society, I'd say you just got outvoted....and yet, look at you. Still using words like "force" and "reqiure" even after the People have expressed their views that they don't WANT you to force them to do anything. Imagine that.

Not such a demunistic (democratic/communism), non-totalitarian utopia after all, is it? Or was the democratic element only supposed to be in place when your little lamb subjects fully agree with the party bosses?

Need another Do-Over?

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
Whats unfair about it -- I'm in your system-- my wife may choose not to work because the incremental benefit of working is not enough. How is choosing not to work unfair to anyone-- she gives up her state determined fair salary?? BUt lots of people would have to make that choice since basic math shows that you have to make more than the daycare worker for it to make sense to go to work and pay for daycare

It's unfair, because not everyone has the option of giving up their salary. Some people have to work no matter what the salary is. And some people DO have to mow their own lawn. Like me lazy bum!

Originally posted by Flubber
Being treated like everyone else regardless of your skills and effort was demotivating . .. heck it was depressing.

Cry me a river. Many people have worse problems.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
But under your system, physicial labor is the only thing that counts. A ditch digger "works more" than a book writer. So he'd have to get compensated more, right?

Duh! You want to sit on you arse writing books while some poor guy has to dig the ditches then you shouldn't demand more pay. That's just freakin common sense man.

[chequita guevara]

I really should wade through this thread and argue, but I'm a Lafargist, and I defend my right to be lazy.

[Kidlicious]

Oh 500 posts. Kill it.