Price Gouging - Fair and balanced, or unfair

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Agathon


Are you kidding? I largely avoid these threads in order to stay awake.

Of course you are wrong: just like everyone else who argues against a cartoon version of socialism.

I guess you should go live in Sweden, where the government watches you all the time, and having sex with gorgeous Nordic women is compulsory and state sponsored.

I'm about done with them. I always hope that they will give a real argument, but it always ends the same sadly.

[Velociryx]

Coming from a former teacher of economics who doesn't believe in interest rates, I find that quite amusing...

'nite.



-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Seriously Vel, continuously claiming that I'm an elitist is simply annoying and couldn't be farther from the truth. The worst part about it is that we could be talking about something else.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Seriously Vel, continuously claiming that I'm an elitist is simply annoying and couldn't be farther from the truth. The worst part about it is that we could be talking about something else.

what some thing else ??


Oh and agathon-- last I checked Sweden was operating as a social democracy with full freedoms so its nowhere near some of what kid proposes

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I'm about done with them. I always hope that they will give a real argument, but it always ends the same sadly.

well if you make the same argument, you will get the same rebuttal


I just don't fundamentally see ANY injustice in the concept that people can make different amounts of money even if they all work hard

My wife is a nurse . . . if the daycare worker made the same wage as her, she would not go to work since if money is equal, we would choose to be at home with our child -- so you have less demand for daycare and less supply of nurses. pretty basic stuff really--- the entire daycare industry survives on the idea that people make more money in their jobs than they pay a caregiver. If you narrow that difference too much , people would have less incentive to work

[Velociryx]

Couldn't sleep...back up for a quick glass of tea (yeah, like that'll help me sleep...LOL).

Did I ever say you were elitist? Quote me saying that ANYWHERE IN THIS THREAD, will you? I'd love to see.

Can't do it, can you? And you accuse ME of putting words in YOUR mouth? Shame, shame....

You're not elitist. You're....misinformed. Hugely misinformed, it would seem, and doggedly determined to holdl onto those beliefs.

Not much I can do to change your mind on it, really.

If you want to believe that interest rates are satanic, and that the only kind of work that counts is raw physical labor and everything else is just so much fluff....go for it.

Here in the real world, that ain't true, but if that's what you wanna believe...sure.

See...unlike the system you propose, the system I'm cozy with allows for that.

You can think crazy, off the wall things like that and it's okay.

But you can't say the same thing, can you, cos under your system, if I start thinking improper capitalist thoughts....well....I'm a menace, and would need re-education in one of your camps someplace (best case) or just a bullet in the head some evening when no one is around to hear (worst case).

But we're all just one big jolly happy democratic family in red-land, right? (after the mass purgings, which you've already advocated in this very thread).

Demo...what?

And maybe...just MAYBE if Agathon had read some of that before telling me I was wrong, I wouldn't have come down so hard on him too....but nahh. You guys gotta stick together, and I respect that. So I'll keep right on lumping "all ya'll" in the same boat too, cos if it's good for the goose...

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
I just don't fundamentally see ANY injustice in the concept that people can make different amounts of money even if they all work hard

My wife is a nurse . . . if the daycare worker made the same wage as her, she would not go to work since if money is equal, we would choose to be at home with our child -- so you have less demand for daycare and less supply of nurses. pretty basic stuff really--- the entire daycare industry survives on the idea that people make more money in their jobs than they pay a caregiver. If you narrow that difference too much , people would have less incentive to work

I guess you think it would be fair for her to stay home while other people have to work just because she would not be getting paid more than them. And you call that justice? Whatever.

[Kidlicious]

Vel,

I'm sorry. I expected more from you in this thread. You did make me think about my own ideas in the beginning, but now you are just being ridiculous. Stop saying that I'm trying to control you. All I'm saying is that we should both be required to put in equal amounts of work and recieve equal compensation. You don't like that, because it may mean less for you than you have now, so you claim that I'm trying to dominate you. I'm just not interested in defending myself there.

[Berzerker]

There's something seriously wrong with an ideology that depends on convincing unbelievers they are the victims of exploitation and punishing them for not being convinced. It's like religious fundies and feminists telling porn stars they are being exploited and outlawing their jobs so they can make less money flipping burgers in the coming Great Society...

[Berzerker]

Stop saying that I'm trying to control you. All I'm saying is that we should both be required to put in equal amounts of work and recieve equal compensation.

No control there Any volunteers for cleaning toilets or working in a coal mine? I want to be one of the central planners since I'll be getting the same wage as the guy getting black lung.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Berzerker


No control there Any volunteers for cleaning toilets or working in a coal mine? I want to be one of the central planners since I'll be getting the same wage as the guy getting black lung.

Even welfare recipients are required to work Berz. I guess you are too beautifull though. You probably got some rich mama to take care of you.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Berzerker
There's something seriously wrong with an ideology that depends on convincing unbelievers they are the victims of exploitation and punishing them for not being convinced.

Come on Berz, now I'm I really punishing you that bad.

[Kidlicious]

Why you guys think it's so unfair to have to work as hard as everyone else is beyond me? Our complaint is that we have to work harder than others. We want to make it fair. You guys don't care about fair, or you think that the current system is fair. If I say I want to force you to work as much as me then I'm likened to Stalin.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I guess you think it would be fair for her to stay home while other people have to work just because she would not be getting paid more than them. And you call that justice? Whatever.

Whats unfair about it -- I'm in your system-- my wife may choose not to work because the incremental benefit of working is not enough. How is choosing not to work unfair to anyone-- she gives up her state determined fair salary?? BUt lots of people would have to make that choice since basic math shows that you have to make more than the daycare worker for it to make sense to go to work and pay for daycare



Now I'm sure that you would provide free daycare and I would like that except for the cost of all those high paid daycare folks has to come from somewhere. If its free, you would have a lot of people making the decision to join the workforce

Edit and daycares would be swamped by parents that wanted to work there so they could get paid the standard fair wage while still being able to be with their child



But the premise would hold for all work-- I would have no incentive to hire the kid to mow my lawn (something I can as well as him ) since I would have to pay him him the same as I would earn in an hour of widget making or lawyering. Right now it makes sense for me to hire people to do certain things since I gain economic advantage-- I work my 50th or 60th hour of the week and somebody else gets a job

Also I don't think I could afford a burger at a restaurant if they had to charge prices that supported a workforce making 20 bucks an hour

I can see most low wage industries being killed-- but I guess thats ok since you will have higher paid work that they can do that will magically appear-- Oh but I am forgetting that all the luxury industries will disappear as well-- after all-- who can afford a yatch or a luxury car when we are all making standard income A1?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Why you guys think it's so unfair to have to work as hard as everyone else is beyond me? .

I work harder than most-- I want you to butt out and let me to work as hard as I want and let me be compensated for my extra work/

Also there is no standard amount of work done by everyone else. There are diligent folks and lazy folks in most jobs. The diligent folks get raises and promotions while the lazy ones complain about the system.

Originally posted by Kidicious
Our complaint is that we have to work harder than others. We want to make it fair.

First I dispute that you work harder than me.
Second I doubt your idea of fair is anywhere near mine

Originally posted by Kidicious
You guys don't care about fair, or you think that the current system is fair. .

Actually I care very much about fair. I was incensed to see the sexist attitudes that led to women being paid less than men doing similar work. But I do think the current system is fair. I could choose ANY work I wanted where I could find a demand for my skills. I was just like every other person in this regard. Nobody tells anyone what they have to do. if you think my job is so easy, you do it

Originally posted by Kidicious
If I say I want to force you to work as much as me then I'm likened to Stalin.

The name Stalin never was mentioned once by me . . . but if you want to

1. FORCE me to do work a job you determine for a wage you determine and

2. Take any innovations of mine and appropriate them to the state

then you are proposing a totalitarian state