Baghdad Al-Jazeera Office Ordered Closed

[Pekka]

That's not the point. Why do you, as a free country, allow this to happen to yourselves? I'm not portraying conservatism as a curse word. Hey, I might be conservative myself. I know this thread is about Al Jazeera. But Fox News is the same, or WORSE than Al Jazeera. At least you know when you're watching propaganda when you tune into Al Jazeera. But many people don't know they're watching _outrageous_ propaganda watching Fox News.

That's the beauty of it, and that makes it powerful. Because many people don't realize they are not watching news that rely on proper journalism. And because it isn't doing it properly, it is not news. And because it is intented to do so on purpose, it is propaganda.

Exactly where do you see propaganda news have space in democracy? If they really want to have their show, then they should be forced to put couple of hundred disclaimers and change their name to entertainment.

People are making their judgements, many people are forming their view of the world by this. And it's nothing but propaganda! Yes, Iraq is free to close down Al Jazeera. It's their decision. But my question is, why do you allow propaganda poison your minds? Why?

It is as if it's not taken seriously. You're treating this like it's not a big deal. You have to read my lips again: it's propaganda. How the hell is that not a big deal in democracy? Democracy doesn't mean anything goes. Fox News is ANTI-democracy and ANTI-American as far as I'm concerned, because it is nothing but propaganda.

Why would you even defend it? Because it might not be propaganda? It is, if you don't take my word for it, then watch the documentary, or come and watch real news and how they are done.

The thing is, when I watched Fox News, and felt it was disgusting way of doing news, is because I hadn't seen anything like it before. So I could immidiately tell the differencies, and quickly determine them as means of propaganda. The documentary basically just told the same story again, and had very few new things to bring to my attention what I didn't already see myself.

If you had to, how would you justify propaganda in democracy?

[Ted Striker]

That's your point Pekka, not mine.

But I'm not here to discuss Fox News.

I'm here to discuss Al Jazeera and why the Iraqi government shut it down.

[Pekka]

OK. You don't have to discuss this at all, I mean this is a different thread. I understand, sorry for threadjack attempt.

But if anyone figures justification for propaganda in democracy, could that someone please start a new thread because I'm all out of threads for a while. Bottom line being, accepted propaganda limits personal freedom, not the other way around.

[Agathon]

They have first hand knowledge of the situation on the ground.

No. They are a bull**** government established by an illegal invader, whose people don't want them, and who can't stand the fact that a news organization is making them look bad. And they conveniently ban the only station that gives decent coverage of the fighting right before they begin the massacre of Sadr's followers in Najaf.

How bloody stupid do you think people are? It's patently obvious what they are doing and why they are doing it now.

Who to trust? Government that is the agent of an illegal occupying power, headed by a thug; or the only news organization that actually gives decent reports on the crap going down in Iraq?

[Bereta_Eder]

Ain't that the truth.

[Bereta_Eder]

Basically what you have is the typical, classic distortion of definitions. Small examples.


We are here to liberate you: We are here to impose our stooges and rob you of your oil


We bring democracy: we bring our own government which will satisfy our needs


You have an Iraqi governemt: you have our stooges

We ban TV stations because they are terrorist: we ban them because we don't want you to get influenced by what they say

We are liberators: we are oppressors

We are fighting terrorists: we are fighting several resistance movements

We respect human rights: we'll do the worse to serve our interests as long as it doesn't have to much chance to back fire

We respect freedom of press: your whole media is controlled both financially and on the personel level by us


Terrorists don't want peace in Iraq: resistance is fighting to throw off the yoke of an imposed US goverment


Oil exploration will benefit Iraq: Oil exploration will benefit american companies



etc etc ad nauseum


it's twisted terminology orwellian style.

Of course noone buys it except some blind people. Unfortunately most of them are american but they have their media to be blamed and themselves for either not getting informed or accepting it.

[Agathon]

I love how the Americans bring their strange ways with them: they've turned Najaf into a city much like Detroit.

[Bereta_Eder]

hehe yeah... they sure "export their model"

[Agathon]

Still, they are supposed to be trying to kill that Sadr fellow this morning, don't they know that's probably what he's hoping for....

If only the United States had a free press...

[Bereta_Eder]

Yep that would indeed be beneficial especially in times where the most ruthless combined with incapable leaders are on their helm. This leads to the suffering of many people.

[Bereta_Eder]

Although one can't say the american press is "unfree" in the conventional sense. The slavery of it is much more subtle and can be found in the unhealthy combination of press with other major corporations/interests (happens in many other countries) and in its severe lack of pluralism meaning only a handful of companies coltrolling most media (mainly american phenomenon).
However I used to envy its tradition in investigating journalism. Wether this goes on or has it become impossible, I don't know.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


i.e. cultural considerations

How can there be cultural considerations in a dispute between Fox on the one hand and Canada on the other?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Agathon

Who to trust? Government that is the agent of an illegal occupying power, headed by a thug; or the only news organization that actually gives decent reports on the crap going down in Iraq?

Al Jazeera is the only news organization that actually gives decent reports from Iraq? Man, what are you smoking?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Pekka
But Fox News is the same, or WORSE than Al Jazeera.

They haven't killed anyone during the course of a story, IIRC. So how are they the same or worse than Al Jazeera?

[Pekka]

DD, are you serious? You think FOX News isn't the anti-christ of American democracy?