John Kerry: Unfit For Command

[MrFun]

It's amazing how so many conservatives claim they have ten times more respect for veterans than liberals, when then they turn around and try to tar and feather the honorable reputations of liberal veterans such as Kerry, or of McCain for not being an extreme right-wing nut.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


These records agree with the statements on Kerry, that he served on a swift boat, and somehow managed to get injured just enough times to magically acheive the number necessary to return home in an extremely short period.

Funny, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the phrase "somehow managed to get injured just enough times" to "magically achieve the number necessary to return home in an extremely short period" anywhere in Kerry's DD214, or elsewhere in his personnel jacket.

BTW, injured is not synonymous with wounded, and if you want to trivialize the Purple Heart, join up and get your ass under fire yourself. Otherwise, I'd be inclined to shove mine so far up your ass you'd be wearing them as a nose ring.

There are bogusly issued PH citations, but absent some real evidence that the senior officers who wrote and issued those citations lied, and thus violated their duty as officers, it's a non-issue.

The three PH policy applied to all services in Vietnam at the time. If Kerry had the political connections to get favorable treatment for an early out, he'd have had no reason to join the brown water Navy at all, when he could merely have gone anywhere in the rest of the Navy or Airforce other than aviation and been at no hazard. Or he could have pulled a Gore. Either way, he could then just as well campaign as a Vietnam Vet without exposing himself to any material risk.

He also managed to get away without any serious injuries.

Seems fishy to me.

Which is something you and the vast majority of posters here are spectacularly unqualified to judge, even if there was some questionable evidence.

Why Kerry chooses to draw attention to his military record is a mystery.

Since the Bush administration is full of chicken chokers who were too precious to not find a way out of any real military service, but now they find themselves perfectly willing to half-assedly micromanage a war or three. Bushy has constantly used the phrase "I'm a war President" so he has been the one to open the door.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


If the military service record of a candidate is not a substantive issue, why is Kerry running on his?

The service record isn't in controversy at all. That's why Kerry's opponents aren't content with it, and in fact ignore it as much as possible, instead relying on last minute, generally unprovable statements from individuals who in many cases have limited evidence from having had any significant direct contact with Kerry that would give them firsthand knowledge of what they now suddenly claim to be fact.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Big Dave
And in this case the fact is that at least one of Kerry's "wounds" that he got the Purple Heart from was self inflicted from incompetant use of a grenade launcher.

Self-inflicted wounds are not eligible for Purple Heart commendations, and may instead be grounds for court-martial on any of a number of charges. So we should assume either that Kerry's CO cooked the records, and/or failed to have any corroborating report from a witness to the engagement?

It's also pretty ****ing unlikely to get a self-inflicted wound in that way from a blooper. The grenade has a wind-in fuse that prevents it from exploding too close to the grenadier, and the blast radius is pretty small, so getting wounded by return fragments is pretty tough to accomplish.

Another fact is that Kerry is misrepresenting his millitary service. If he is not then let him fill out a brief two page form to allow the Navy to release his millitary record. He has declined to do so.

FIA requests make all non-classified portions of his service record available to the requestor, except those (medical and financial) specifically exempted from FIA or covered under other Federal privacy or non-disclosure laws.

Whether or not Kerry has declined to do so, it's like the old Sam Rayburn "pig****er" story about LBJ's first senatorial campaign. Kerry has no reason to take time to give exposure to someone else's agenda.

Yet another fact is that of the ~18 people who served with him only 2 are supporting him. Given that you get to know someone well when you serve in combat with them I would be inclined to trust the judgement of these people.

Kerry said some less than kind things about them after the war. Lacking any evidence of how directly these individuals served with Kerry, or of their contemporaneously expressed opinions of him, I don't find their current statements to be especially interesting, whether favorable or otherwise.

And yet another fact is that Kerry came back from Viet Nam and proceeded to lambast the US, the Navy, and the war, while he was still in service. This treason, just in case there was any doubt.

A general article CU or SD charge yes, but treason is laughable. I don't know what the squid JAG practice guides have to say about this, but Army JAG staff have analyzed this type of situation vis-a-vis the UCMJ, so I'm stating this conclusion based on their analysis, not mine.

Don't get me wrong, I have no love for President Bush, but I'll be voting AGAINST Kerry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not thrilled with Kerry, but I'll be voting against Bush.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Nothing in what I quoted is outside of the official record of the Navy.

I have nothing against his star that he won, which I believe was not silver, but bronze.

I suggest you take your own advice.

Kerry won both a Bronze Star AND a Silver Star. Man, you are embarassing yourself today, aren't you?

So, tell me, Mr. Military Expert, how is it a guy could be awarded 3 PHs, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star all through some form of chicanery?

I'll pit Kerry's war record against anything you've done any day, frankly.

[MichaeltheGreat]

It's all part of a vast left wing conspiracy.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Kerry won both a Bronze Star AND a Silver Star. Man, you are embarassing yourself today, aren't you?

So, tell me, Mr. Military Expert, how is it a guy could be awarded 3 PHs, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star all through some form of chicanery?

I'll pit Kerry's war record against anything you've done any day, frankly.

He shot a dead man.

[Ming]

Both parties are full of mud slingers... and this surprises people how

I love how some people want to take the high road here and imply that the other party throws more mud...

A pointless argument... both parties suck when it comes to discussing the issues vs throwing mud around. There is no high ground here

[Joseph]

Pres. and US Military

Truman, Capt. Army WWI
Ike. 5 Star Gen. WWII
Kennedy LT. Navy WWII
Johnson LtCom Navy WWII
Nixon LtCom Navy WWII
Ford, LtCom Navy WWII
Carter, Com. Navy. Capt of a Fast Attack Nuc. Sub.
Reagan, I read somewhere that he was in the Army for a short time?
Bush 1, Navy Lt WWII Read the book "Flyboys", it a very good book.
Clinton a draft dogger, anti military, in fact he hated the military, Pro allowing womans to suck his penis
Bush 2, Texas ANG Part time 1st Lt

It help somtime to have military service as you can see since 1945.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Joseph
He shot a dead man.

Not according to his crewmate Fred Short.

The man was still running down a path when they got to the bank. Kerry, Belodeau and Michael McDarris, in hot pursuit, saw the Vietcong soldier. Short recalled: "The guy was getting ready to stand up with a rocket on his shoulder, coming up. And Mr. Kerry took him out … he would have been about a 30-yard shot. Which, we were dead in the water up on the bank, point blank. If he missed us, he would have to, you know — there's no way he could miss us. He could've thrown a rock and taken me out."

The others agreed that it was a close call. "If this guy would have got up, and he had a clear shot at us, we would have been history," Thorson said. "Wouldn't have been no doubt about it."

"If that RPG had exploded in the pilot house or anywhere in that area," Short said, "we were toast."

These attempts to disparage a veteran are pretty damned dispicable.

[Ming]

All mud slinging is usually dispicable... but that doesn't stop both parties from doing it... So whine all you want, the dems are just as bad... as will proved long before this election is over... so deal with it and stuff all the moral outrage "somewhere" else

[Boris Godunov]

Um, if I didn't find it morally outrageous that both sides do it, then you might have a point, but that isn't the case. And I certainly don't see why I shouldn't express disgust over people regurgitating this nonsense unthinkingly. So why don't you stuff the pendantic BS somewhere else?

[Ming]

I just laugh when one side is outraged about something that both sides do all the time. Politics in this country have sunk to the lowest levels... nothing really surprises me anymore. I just try to ignore all the crap and vote for the candidate that is closer to my positions. Unfortunately... as usual, both candidates have serious flaws, and I disagree with both of them on many issues... but, I will end up voting for the lesser of two evils instead of voting for somebody who I would really like to see as president. It seems to be the same ole crap every four years for the two major parties.

And what's even worse is that my vote really doesn't make much difference. The Dems will carry Illinois whether I vote for Kerry or Bush... I might as well make my normal protest and write in Mickey Mouse...

[Alexander's Horse]

But you'll vote Republican like you always do anyway....

[Ming]

It depends... In the major races, I do tend to vote Republican more often because I'm closer to them on the issues (but I do disagree with them on many things)

I've voted for many Democrats in my life, some libertarians (but's it's tough since most of them are crazy) and some independents. I vote for the person that is closest to my views... and sometimes, it isn't the Republican. I don't vote like some zombies who blindly support every candidate their party offers up.