John Kerry: Unfit For Command

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
You're being deliberately obtuse.

No, I'm making a point about how people misremember things over time. From being harrassed on the way home it has invariably become "Spit on as I got off the plane from Vietnam."

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk


You do realize the last time that happened, the lawsuit not only failed, but the plaintiff had to recompense Drudge for court costs?



http://www.drudgereport.com/$2500.htm

Which is meaningless, given that defamation laws are stacked in favor of defendants in the US, and public figure immunity is so strong that people can make and sell a videotape accusing Clinton of multiple murders with impunity. They could accuse him of being a pedophile, or anything else with equal immunity. Same with Bush or Kerry, so Drudge's tooting his own horn is either ignorance or dishonest. Loss of the suit has nothing to do with the underlying merits. It's practically easier to prove murder than to sue for defamation in the US.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You'd have made a good German.

And you're way out of line.

[Boris Godunov]

Good news is that some of the accuser's against Kerry are finding their integrity:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040806/us_nm/campaign_kerry_vietnam_dc

BOSTON (Reuters) - John Kerry (news - web sites)'s commanding officer in Vietnam has backed away from attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate, saying he made a mistake in accusing the U.S. senator of having lied about his wartime record.

George Elliott, who was one of Kerry's superiors in Vietnam when he was awarded medals for heroic actions, had signed an affidavit suggesting Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star.

In the document, Elliott said, "I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

But in Friday's Boston Globe, Elliott said: "It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."

Elliott told the newspaper he thinks Kerry did deserve the medal.

"I still don't think he (Kerry) shot the guy in the back," Elliott is quoted as saying in the Globe.

Kerry used his nominating convention in Boston in July to paint himself as a decorated war hero capable of leading the nation in troubled times and a man better qualified to be commander-in-chief than President Bush (news - web sites).

But Elliott and other members of a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, oppose Kerry.

This week they launched a television advertisement accusing the Democrat of having lied about his service in Vietnam and hurting other veterans by criticizing the war after returning home. Next week the group will publish a book, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry."

Elliott was not immediately available for comment.

Kerry, arguing his combat experience in Vietnam qualifies him as a strong leader on national security issues, has surrounded himself with other veterans who have said the candidate did heroic deeds to save his own crew mates.

The new attacks on Kerry sparked an angry response from Republican Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), also a Vietnam veteran, who called the attack dishonorable and dishonest and urged the Bush administration to also denounce the ad.

The administration distanced itself from the advertisement on Thursday but did not condemn it.

"We have not and we will not question Sen. Kerry's service in Vietnam," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

Good for Elliott. But I can anticipate people here wondering how he was bought off.

[DRoseDARs]

Just for fun...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060010

MMFA investigates: Who is Jerome Corsi, co-author of Swift Boat Vets attack book?

While much has been written about the identity and history of John E. O'Neill -- one of the authors of the forthcoming Regnery book Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry (whose links in the GOP go back to his days as "protégé of Nixon-era dirty trickster Charles Colson") -- little has been said about his co-author, Jerome R. Corsi, PhD.

• Corsi on Islam: "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion"

• Corsi on Catholicism: "Boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press"

• Corsi on Muslims: "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together"

• Corsi on "John F*ing Commie Kerry": "After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal grandparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry?"

• Corsi on Senator "FAT HOG" Clinton: "Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she?"

Unfit for Command has received wide media coverage recently, in part because of hype on The Drudge Report and the website Human Events Online, which is offering a sample chapter via e-mail, and in part as a result of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's new attack ad on Kerry's service in Vietnam. The book has skyrocketed to the top of the Amazon.com "Top Sellers" list, as of August 6.

Corsi received his PhD in political science from Harvard University in 1972; his dissertation was titled Prior Restraint, Prior Punishment, and Political Dissent; a Moral and Legal Evaluation. Previously, he co-authored a report on the 1967 riots in Cleveland, titled "Shoot-out in Cleveland: Black Militants and the Police," published in 1968 by the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence.

In addition to Unfit for Command, Corsi has written books on a variety of subjects, and is currently the vice president of development and senior editor of U.S. Financial Marketing Group. Recently, he has been contributing articles to the website wintersoldier.com on the subject of Senator John Kerry's record as an anti-war activist following his service in the Vietnam War.

In this series of articles, Corsi has accused Kerry of "violating the legal provision against negotiating with foreign powers (18 U.S.C. 953) and the constitutional prohibition against giving support to our nation's enemies during wartime (Article III, Section 3)"; asserted that Kerry's actions as an anti-war activist amounted to treason; and claimed that "Kerry and the VVAW consistently coordinated their efforts with Communists." Corsi asserted that, in 1971, Kerry's anti-war activism amounted to a proclamation by him that "Communists were right in maintaining that American values were corrupt and that the only solution was for America to capitulate so Communism could continue to spread." As Media Matters for America has noted, Kerry was quoted expressing exactly the opposite sentiment in a December 12, 1971, Boston Globe article: "I don't like Communists," Kerry said. "In fact, I hate them. I hate all totalitarians. I'm totally dedicated to representative, pluralistic, free democracy."

On August 6, Salon.com's Joe Conason documented links between Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and the conservative online forum www.FreeRepublic.com. Conason noted that the designer of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth website is Robert A. Hahn, a director of the Free Republic Network, a conservative activist organization affiliated with FreeRepublic.com. Scott Swett, who is listed as the webmaster of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth website, swiftvets.com, also appeared on FOX News Channel host Sean Hannity's August 5 radio show to discuss the group. Swett posts frequently to FreeRepublic.com, using the pseudonym "Interesting Times," and is also a director of the Free Republic Network. The wintersoldier.com website to which Swett has contributed articles is a project of the Free Republic Network.

Corsi is also a frequent participant in FreeRepublic.com's online forums, posting under the pseudonym "jrlc" since 2001. (Click here to read a full set of Corsi's posts; click here to read the post in which "jrlc" admits to being Jerome Corsi.)

On FreeRepublic.com, Corsi has, among other things, said that "ragheads" are "boy buggers"; referred to "John F*ing Kerry"; called Senator Hillary Clinton a "Fat Hog"; referred to her daughter as "Chubby Chelsie" Clinton; referred to Janet Reno as "Janet Rhino"; called Katie Couric "Little Katie Communist"; suggested Kerry was "practicing Judaism"; and expressed the wish that a small plane that had crashed into a building in Los Angeles had instead crashed into the set of NBC'S The West Wing, thereby killing actor Martin Sheen.

Following are some examples. [Spelling and punctuation are Corsi's own.]

On Catholics and the Pope

CORSI: Maybe while he's there he can tell the UN what he's going to do about the sexual crimes committed by "priests" in his "Church" during his tenure. Or, maybe that's the connection -- boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press. (03/03/2003)

CORSI: So this is what the last days of the Catholic Church are going to look like. Buggering boys undermines the moral base and the laywers rip the gold off the Vatican altars. We may get one more Pope, when this senile one dies, but that's probably about it. (12/16/2002)

On Islam and Arabs

CORSI: Let's see exactly why it isn't the case that Islam is a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion? Where's the proof to the contrary? (04/24/2004)

CORSI: Islam is like a virus -- it affects the mind -- maybe even better as an analogy -- it is a cancer that destroys the body it infects... No doctor would hesitate to eliminate cancer cells from the body. (11/26/02)

CORSI: Islam is a peaceful religion as long as the women are beaten, the boys buggered, and the infidels killed. (11/22/2002)

CORSI: How's this as an analogy -- the Koran is simply the "software" for producing deviant cancer cell political behavior and violence in human beings. (02/15/2002)

CORSI: Think the liberal press will ever let out that these 2 were lovers -- typical Islamic boy-buggering -- older man, younger man -- black Muslims? I doubt it. Not a pretty picture, but one certain to be hidden by PC media. (11/08/2002)

CORSI: Isn't the Democratic Party the official SODOMIZER PROTECTION ASSOCIATION of AMERICA -- oh, I forgot, it was just an accident that Clintoon's first act in office was to promote "gays in the military." RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together. (11/18/2001)

On Senator John Kerry

CORSI: First let's undermine the US in Vietnam. Then we can go for gay marriage. When you get to be Pres. JFK-lite, there will be no end to how much of America we can destroy. (05/17/2004)

CORSI: Just don't let anybody put a tablet with the Ten Commandments in front of the school where that girl wants to wear a Muslim scarf -- OH, No --- then the RATS would complain. Anti-Christian, Anti-American -- just like their Presidential Candidate -- Jean Francois Kerrie. (03/31/2004)

CORSI: After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal gradparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry? (03/04/2004)

CORSI: Kerry has a long history of Communist supporters. (03/12/2004)

CORSI: Kerry offers a clear choice. Anti-American hatred. (02/08/2004)

CORSI: John F*ing Commie Kerry and Commie Ted [Kennedy] discuss their plan to hand America over to our nation's enemies. (02/04/2004)

On former President Bill Clinton

CORSI: When is this guy going to admit he's simply an anti-American communist? Won't he and his leftist wife simply go away???? Enough already. (02/24/2002)

CORSI: Hey, Bill, didn't you steal enough when you had the chance? (02/15/2002)

CORSI: Clinton doesn't get it. Afganistan, and other Moslim countries, are not poor because they lack money. The culture itself is anti-modern. But then, maybe Slick did get it and he just wants to create another bork barrel from which he and his wife can draw slop. (02/15/2002)

CORSI: Clinton was more interested in gays in the military than going after OBL. Clinton had Janet Rhino pushing the FBI to deport a child to Castro's nondemocratic Cuba, not searching out OBL sleepers in the USA. Clinton was too busy getting BJs in the Oval Office to do more than Wag the Dog after the Cole was hit. (05/16/2002)

On Senator Hillary Clinton

CORSI: HELL-ary loves the Arabs so much (kiss, kiss Mrs. Arab*RAT) -- wonder how she would look in a Burkha? (05/21/2002)

CORSI: Mullah Ali'Gore-ah is very proud of his new Bin Laden beard and he hopes others in the Democratic Party will follow his lead. Hell-ary is disappointed she cannot grow a beard, but her press secretary reminds us she can still enroll in flight school. (01/07/02)

CORSI: Let the FAT HOG run!!! [regarding a possible presidential bid] (08/30/2003)

CORSI: Hellary should resign and go away. What ever happened to the people she ran over with her car at Westchester Airport? Can't anybody sue this b*tch? (11/17/2002)

CORSI: Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she? (06/08/2003)

On Chelsea Clinton

CORSI: According to Talk Magazine, Chubby Chelsea had a very great adventure on 9/11 in NYC and Hell-ary had the details wrong -- oh, it was terrible. (12/07/2001)

CORSI: Did the Journalist see Chubbie Chelsea among the wives. Little Katie Communist [Katie Couric] on the NBC Today show interviewed Hillary this morning and mom is worried sick about Chelsea. She was last seen in Kandahar at a Starbucks. But now, as Little Katie Communist sighed, "Who Knows?" Even British disinformation planted reports such as this grocery crap will be useful. Anyone with information about Chubbie Chelsea's whereabouts should post it now. Mom wants to know her daughter is out of harms way. Mom also wants to be at the center of the story. (11/29/2001)

CORSI: But the real question is: WHERE IS CHUBBIE CHELSEA? Is she in Kabul in danger, looking for a Starbucks? Waldo wants to know. Please, Little Katie Communist, HELP US FIND CHELSEA. THE SITUATION MAY BE URGENT. (11/29/2001)

CORSI: HILLARY SAYS CHELSEA IS MISSING AND JANET RHINO DOESN'T KNOW WHERE SHE IS? (11/28/2001)

On former Vice President Al Gore

CORSI: Gore isn't available for television. He is growing his regulation length Bin Laden beard. Mullah Ali'Gore-ah, as he now wishes to be called, is focused on his new career as a pilot. "Want to fly like bird," he says after his stint as a professor at Columbia. "No need to learn take-off or landing, just soar like bird and look at buildings." As to Florida, Mulllah Gore-ah says, "No big buildings," dismissing the importance of the state to his future plans." (12/15/2001)

On the Media

CORSI: Time to FREEP Chris Matthews of MSNBC. MSNBC is beginning to stand for "More Sh*t, Nothing But Communism." (05/16/2002)

CORSI: I didn't realize Little Katie Communist of the NBC Today Show knew how to hack a website. Finally something impressive from the little wimp. [responding to news that USA Today's website had been hacked and that the hackers were mocking President George W. Bush's Christianity] (07/12/2002)

CORSI: COMMUNISM -- it's simple NBC = NOTHING BUT COMMUNISM. (04/19/2004)

CORSI: Susan Estrogen -- even the voice grates. But then with supporters like her and Ted Kennedy, who needs enemies. Let Susan BLAH BLAH screatch -- only Chrissy Matthews whines better. (04/13/2004)

Assorted

CORSI: Perfect Liberal -- lesbian, self-absorbed, hates America, anxious to impose her values on everybody else. [on Martina Navratilova] (06/26/2002)

CORSI: And now we get Pooh-LEFTY pushed on us by the RATS as Minority Leader in the House -- here come the SanFrancisco liberals -- hope the RATS go back to focusing the debate on gay marriages and other pro-choice topics close to Pelosi's heart. (11/18/2002)

CORSI: Too bad the plane didn't crash into the TV set of the NBC show "THE LEFT WING" -- especially when Martin Sheen was "acting." (06/07/2003)

— D.B.B.

Posted to the web on Friday August 6, 2004 at 6:20 PM EST

[Lincoln]

I just heard Steve Gardner on the radio answering some tough questions. It appears that he definitely was a gunners mate on Kerry's boat and served with him for about two of his four months. But the San Francisco Chronical said that ALL the crewmen supported Kerry. This story isn't going away. All of these men including admirals are not lying. BTW, swift boats often work together in packs and the crews often sleep together in service ships. It is not like being on different air craft carriers. I personally don't know what to think of all the lies and counter lies but I am learning how to promote a book now . I think that the key is to have it come out in an election year. Movies seem tp do pretty good as well.

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=KERRY-MEDALS-08-04-04

One thing that can't fit well with many vetrans is how Kerry wears his "war hero" status on his shirt sleave. Most of the real heros I know will not speak of their heroic acts unless you drag it out of them. Then they tell the story with their heads down giving the glory usually to the other men in their unit. Of course they are not politicians. This observation could bear out the following quote from Capt. Hoffman (a captain in Vietnam and Kerry was one of the officers under his command during the Operation Sea Lords campaign.)

"I knew him well enough to know him," Hoffman said. "He's the most vain individual I've ever met _ aloof and arrogant."

As far as funding organizations against Kerry, where would you expect them to raise funds, at Salon.com? Also as an aside, Kerry's lawyers are threatening lawsuits to publications who publish adds by the Swiftboats against Kerry group. I knew he had the trial lawyers on his side for a reason...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Medals were given out with less frequency during WW2, and the army infantry (and airborne units in particular) awarded them relatively less often than other services or combat branches. Enlisted personnel are also singled out for recognition relatively less often than officers for given acts.

I'd have to assume that the standard for what warranted a Purple Heart also changed or changes over time and with branch of service or rank.

3 in 4 months sort of stretches it in my mind. Did any of them require hospitalization? But anyway, as i said, it seems more like a strange byproduct of a strange war, given what Kerry did afterwards, than anything else.

I don't question any examination of Kerry or Bush's FIA obtainable records, or any other official records or contemporaneous statements on the record or other documents if there is an issue raised by the official records. If some guy who had never come forward at the time claimed Bush had done something that wasn't in his official records, I'd call that BS just as much as this stuff with Kerry.

Bush's official records, not some out of the woodwork loon, state that Bush failed to report for a flight physical and was bumped from flight status. That is why Bush eventually took the step of releasing pay and other records that showed what the FIA obtainable portion of his records did not.

For me, the mere fact that Bush, like Quayle, got into an overstrength guard unit when he was IA draft bait is bogus, but then so was Gary Hart's convenient direct commission into the Naval Reserve.

If you want an example of a proper and reasonable inquiry into this sort of thing, look at Lyndon Johnson's Silver Star. Johnson, as a member of the House of Representatives was directly commissioned into the Naval Reserve as a Lt. Commander, and went to the Pacific as an observer.

He was awarded a Silver Star for supposedly flying along as an extra observer on a bombing raid over Lae. Why an observer would rate a medal that the actual flight crew didn't rate is questionable, but official records (funny how those things work) of the bomber squadron that flew the mission showed that the aircraft in which Johnson flew suffered engine failure, and turned back while still a few hundred miles from the target area and in friendly airspace.

The contemporaneous official records of the mission and the squadron's maintenance records flatly contradict and make impossible the claims on Johnson's Silver Star citation. That creates a legitimate basis for inquiry, and a conclusion that LBJ was full of ****.

As LBJ said, "I may not know much, but I do know the difference between chicken **** and chicken salad."

Unsupported character assassination 30 years after the fact is completely different than inquiries into official records. I find it interesting when people want to treat one with the same credibility as the other when it suits their ideology.

You place a lot of faith in official records. More than I.

You place little faith in personal accounts. Less than I.

We will have to differ, because I doubt we will change each other's minds.

Oh, btw, I'm not a conservative American with an axe to grind. I'm a centerist furriner who thinks that no matter who you fine folks pick this Novermber you are making a bad choice. They both suck. I do agree though that the one untried most likely sucks less, but that remains to be proven.

[Ramo]

If you place a lot of faith in personal accounts, why are you ignoring the personal accounts of the 8 out of 9 living shipmates of Kerry who are actually campaigning for him?

[notyoueither]

I'm not. I didn't say I believe the hatchet job that this book obviously is... fully. It's a piece, not the whole puzzle.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


How did protesters get on to Travis AFB to spit on these guys as they got off the plane from Vietnam?

Che come on, the people took buses to either SFO, Oakland airport, or to buses in Oakland or SF. or the train station in Oakland. In was in the civilian location that they were treated baldly.

[Lincoln]

Here is the latest on the story Boris posted above:

WASHINGTON -- A report that one of a group of veterans opposing Senator John F. Kerry's bid for the presidency had said he made a mistake signing an affidavit questioning Kerry's medals rocketed around the airwaves yesterday, sparking a backlash on conservative radio programs and the Drudge Report website.

The programs asserted that retired Lieutenant Commander George Elliott had been misquoted in yesterday's Boston Globe when he said he had made a "terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit suggesting Kerry did not deserve to be awarded the Silver Star. Kerry was awarded the medal for killing a Viet Cong soldier.

The Globe quoted Elliott, who was Kerry's commanding officer during the war, as saying he was under "time pressure" when he signed the document and still believes Kerry deserved the Silver Star for his service. The affidavit was released ahead of the publication of a new book that questions whether Kerry should have been given some of his combat medals.

Elliott released another affidavit yesterday backing away from his comments this week to the Globe, saying the reporter, Michael Kranish, misquoted him.

Globe Editor Martin Baron released a statement saying "the Globe stands by the article. The quotes attributed to Mr. Elliott were on the record and absolutely accurate."

In 1996, when Kerry was running for Senate reelection and faced questions about the circumstances in which he shot the Viet Cong fighter, Elliott came to Boston and defended Kerry, saying he deserved the Silver Star.

In yesterday's new affidavit, Elliott said, "had I known the facts I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star simply for pursuing and dispatching a single wounded Viet Cong." He added, "I do not claim to have any personal knowledge as to how Kerry shot the wounded, fleeing Viet Cong."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/08/07/veteran_claims_misquote_on_kerry_globe_stands_by_its_story/

[MichaeltheGreat]

Well, this guy flip-flops even more than Kerry or Bush.

[Drake Tungsten]

Well, the Kerry campaign has now all but admitted that his decades of claims that he was sent on an illegal mission to Cambodia are bull****. Thanks to the Swiftboat Veterans for pointing it out. Now let's see if any more of their accusations are true...

SwiftVets 1 - 0 Kerry

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


No, I'm making a point about how people misremember things over time. From being harrassed on the way home it has invariably become "Spit on as I got off the plane from Vietnam."

Or is it a question of minute semantics? "Off the plane from Vietnam" could reasonably include the civilian transport within CONUS as well as the military transport from the initial leg of the flight.

If you travel by air on a couple of different airlines on a one stop flight to a final destination, do you consider it two separate trips, or part of the same trip

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Well, the Kerry campaign has now all but admitted that his decades of claims that he was sent on an illegal mission to Cambodia are bull****. Thanks to the Swiftboat Veterans for pointing it out. Now let's see if any more of their accusations are true...

SwiftVets 1 - 0 Kerry

We did missions in Cambodia quite often. They're still classified, so I'd like to see this "admission" and any refutation before there's any score.