Tax the rich!!!

[KrazyHorse]

If thousands of newly rich people are creating themselves in this country each year, and if that's a trend that has held true since the fifties (and it has), then don't you think that, mathematically, the sum total of people who have bootstrapped their way to wealth would surpass those who got it the old fashioned way?

Would you please think about what you're writing?

There might be thousands pushing themselves to the top every year.

There are millions already at the top.

Therefore the stream of people getting to the top by their own work is very small compared to the number of people already there. Therefore, given a generational turnover of about 30 years 90% of the richest people had parents who were the richest people.

You're sputtering and spewing crap in contradiction to the facts

The income correlation factor between father and son in the US is approximately 0.4 IIRC

this means that something like 90% in the top 1% will find their children in the top 1%

The income of parents is by far the best single predictor of a child's probable future income.

[Velociryx]

Saw the title of a book, yep.

I can show you LOTS of books that say almost anything.

Statistics is a beautiful thing, really.

Massage those numbers enough, and I'll bet we can work it so that the USofA has 25% unemployment, too!

Shall we? Then everybody could take my statistics as the gospel truth!

There just aren't that many "old money" familiies in this country, guy.

Have a look around. This country is a money making machine, and yes, those who have money to start with have an easier time at making more, but opportunities abound.

Try it...you'll like it....

-=Vel=-

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

The income of parents is by far the best single predictor of a child's probable future income.

Amen.

and that is totally contrary to the ideals that liberitarians appeal to when justifying their economic model.

[KrazyHorse]

You've just given up on reality. Thank you very much.

http://ideas.repec.org/p/lau/crdeep/9910.html

Pardon me. This study estimates a correlation factor between father and son income at 0.5(!)

[Velociryx]

Geronimo, no arguments with that part of your logic, however...the vast majority of the "rich" in this country are not billionaires, and I daresay that if you inherited a million bucks (yep, you'd be "rich") and opted to never work a day in your life, you could make it.

When you died, however, YOUR heirs would certainly not be.

See?

-=Vel=-

[KrazyHorse]

With an index fund your return on investment is approximately 8% historically, IIRC

So you could retain your entire capital and still have 80 000$ pretaxes to support you.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Saw the title of a book, yep.

I can show you LOTS of books that say almost anything.

Statistics is a beautiful thing, really.

Massage those numbers enough, and I'll bet we can work it so that the USofA has 25% unemployment, too!

Shall we? Then everybody could take my statistics as the gospel truth!

There just aren't that many "old money" familiies in this country, guy.

Have a look around. This country is a money making machine, and yes, those who have money to start with have an easier time at making more, but opportunities abound.

Try it...you'll like it....

-=Vel=-

Oh not the old statistics are imaginary fairy numbers argument. Isn't it interesting that it only crops up from people who don't want to look at the details themselves? As an aside, I voted for Bush but I have to say one of the things I really hate him for is his disdain for valuing statistics and facts over intuition and bull****.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Massage those numbers enough, and I'll bet we can work it so that the USofA has 25% unemployment, too!

Not really. Nine percent is the best we can come up with, not counting the under-employed, which would only kick it up a little more.

Then everybody could take my statistics as the gospel truth!

You ask for the math then belittle it when you get it?

There just aren't that many "old money" familiies in this country, guy.

Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. Old money is rarely ostentatious. They don't flaunt their wealth. But it's there. Trust me, I've known a few and dated the daughters of a couple.

Furthermore, generational transfer doesn't mean the wealth is that old. Look at the Kennedies. They're relatively new money. Joe Kennedy was a rum runner during prohihibition, that's how he made his fortune, he was a gangster. We're only three generations down from him.

I have no idea how far back the Gates fortune goes, but Bill Gates was rich before he ever made a deal with IBM. In fact, he got to meat with IBM because his mother was on the BoD of a Bank with the Chairman of IBM.

This country is a money making machine, and yes, those who have money to start with have an easier time at making more, but opportunities abound.

Which is not to say that it's easy for everyone to become rich. You look at absolute numbers, 10,000 people, and say Wow! But there's 293,000,000 Americans. Ten thousand isn't even a whole percent of that. It's less than one percent of one percent. That doesn't strike me as particularly easy to get rich any given year.

[chequita guevara]

dp

[KrazyHorse]

[GePap]

Guys, Vel has entered what I would term his "faith zone" a place were logic and the numbers simply will not reach him. Give it up.

[Berzerker]

and that is totally contrary to the ideals that liberitarians appeal to when justifying their economic model.

You wanna back that up?

[Berzerker]

Arrian -

That assumes that NH will be a functioning society, as opposed to one experiencing systemic breakdown, as I suspect it might.

The NE and Middle states were economically ~libertarian for over a century without this systemic breakdown. Wanna explain that given your suspicion?

[Berzerker]

Gepap, the "estate" tax is a death tax, it's a tax we selectively impose on people when they die. If they didn't die, the tax wouldn't apply.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Gepap, the "estate" tax is a death tax, it's a tax we selectively impose on people when they die. If they didn't die, the tax wouldn't apply.

oooooh yes, let's call it the "death" tax so people think it's bad...