Paul Martin's Cabinet

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by St Leo

Originally posted by notyoueither
You are right that there is a double standard. The trouble is that many people expected the Conservatives to have a lot of loons from the right, their opponents and some in the media encouraged that perception, AND THEN you had candidates jumping up and doing the Arnold Horshack.

arper was doing a great job of representing that Conservatives don't have horns. Trouble is that people like Gallant and White then put the doubt back in peoples' minds with stupid, stupid comments. That allowed Martin to get out the boots and lay them into Harper on health care while the Conservatives were in disarray and having to argue about troglodytes again.

It ain't fair. It's politics.

Well, the fact that Harper said that he'd let backbenchers determine social policy and then there were these backbenchers explaning what social policy they want wasn't a winning combination.

I wouldn't say that there necessarily is a double standard. People don't vote for Liberal or NDP MPs. People vote for the NDP or the Liberals. The opinions of individual NDP or Liberal MPs determine party policy, but they vote as a block so individual loons don't really matter.

Eh.

Uhhhh.... it's Liberal back benchers who have brought these issues to the House as private members bills recently, bills which normally do not get tied to party discipline.

Also, apparently, you can vote for an NDP candidate and have that potential MP walk out of the House when issues like abortion and same sex marriage come up. How much a part of the block is that?

Can you come up with a real excuse for the double standard?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
At the expense of the taxpayer?
Did he go to visit family, or was this a trade junket? Make up your mind.

More lies.

The trip was not at the taxpayer's expense. He paid for it himself.

You criticise him for taking a holiday and then you criticise him for working on a holiday.

Even for you, this is lame.

It was a private trip at his own expense. While he was there, he tried to drum up business for BC. Only a lunatic like you would complain about this.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
True, but it doesn't mean that he gets all the credit he has been getting for being a Premier.

He did an okay job.

At least he wasn't convicted of a crime like Campbell. He didn't use his office to sell his fantasy like Vander Zalm. He didn't commit insider trading like Bennett.

By BC standards, Dosanjh wasn't too bad.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I blame the NDP for overspending and saddling BC with a 4 billion dollar deficit, not the recession. If they had showed some fiscal restraint, we would be in a much better position now.

You're such a hypocrite. You defend Bush's massive overspending and then criticise the NDP when it runs a relatively small deficit.

[Ben Kenobi]

You defend Bush's massive overspending and then criticise the NDP when it runs a relatively small deficit.

Where do I defend the budget deficits of Bush?

I agree with cutting taxes provided those cuts are also matched by cuts in spending.

By BC standards, Dosanjh wasn't too bad.

Which says much more about BC than about Dosanjh.

At least he wasn't convicted of a crime like Campbell.

And he didn't refurbish his deck...

Funny how you forgot to mention all that in your analysis of prior premiers.

It was a private trip at his own expense. While he was there, he tried to drum up business for BC. Only a lunatic like you would complain about this.

Seems I'm going to have to dig up more dirt on Dosanjh. What a shame.

And for the record, just because I disagree with you does not make you a lunatic, anymore than it makes me one.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Where do I defend the budget deficits of Bush?
I agree with cutting taxes provided those cuts are also matched by cuts in spending.

So you believe that Bush has done a horrible job by running up a massive record deficit? Good to see you have some sense.

If you hate the fact that the NDP had some deficit budgets then you must be able to give credit to Dosanjh for balancing the budget and having a surplus during his time as premier. (2000-01 $1.1 billion surplus and the NDP also ran a surplus budget in 99-00)

Then Campbell takes power and what does he do? He wipes out the surplus and runs a massive deficit.

So unless you're a hypocrite, you must be willing to give the Dosanjh and the NDP credit for operating surplus budgets while criticising Campbell and Bush for their deficit budgets.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
And for the record, just because I disagree with you does not make you a lunatic, anymore than it makes me one.

We can disagree on many things and I wouldn't call you a lunatic, but if you complain about a politician working on his vacation then, yes, I'd have to call you crazy.

[Ben Kenobi]

NDP also ran a surplus budget in 99-00)

Ah, the Fudge-it budget.

The most notorious 'balanced' budget ever.

How many costs were offloaded to future years so that there could be a balanced budget for one year only?

And even then, it's touch and go whether it comes out black or red.

I'm not complaining about Dosanjh working on vacation. I complain that he's off on a junket when he should be working.

So you believe that Bush has done a horrible job by running up a massive record deficit? Good to see you have some sense.

I think he's hamstrung by a Congress that will not approve of cuts to social programs.

He wipes out the surplus and runs a massive deficit.

He inherited a deficit of 4 Billion dollars,
which is now up to a projected surplus of 500 million.

His last budget projected at 2 billion in deficit came in at about 1.2 billion in deficit, so that's not too shabby.

http://www.bcliberals.com/news/speeches/speech02120301.asp

Had to wade through the morass of NDP spin on this budget.

http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/

[RGBVideo]

[threadjack from a non-canuck]

BTW, there aren't enough women in the cabinet.

I just hate it when people insist that women should be in power just because they are women. Would it be impossible to consider that, you know, Martin actually selected the best persons for the job?

[/threadjack from a non-canuck]

[Ben Kenobi]

just hate it when people insist that women should be in power just because they are women. Would it be impossible to consider that, you know, Martin actually selected the best persons for the job?

Fervant reactionary.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by VJ
[threadjack from a non-canuck]

I just hate it when people insist that women should be in power just because they are women. Would it be impossible to consider that, you know, Martin actually selected the best persons for the job?

[/threadjack from a non-canuck]

There is no "best persons" - we're talking about politicians.

[Hot Mustard]

As for BC politics and politicians - it has always been a toss-up on whether there is more loons and shysters (sp?) in the BC legislature or the Vancouver Stock Exchange.

I do not have a favourable memory of a single BC politician.
(former British Columbian of 27 years)

[Tingkai]

Ben: You're making up facts, telling outright lies and grasping for straws.

Why are you doing that? Why are you ignoring the facts? Why are you criticising him for taking a holiday when everyone takes a holiday? Why are you criticising him for going to his house?

Could it be connected to Dosanjh's religion?

One thing is clear. The NDP were fiscally responsible. Campbell's Liberals are not.

FACT: The NDP produced a budget with a $29 million surplus in 1999/2000 and a $1.6 billion surplus in 2000/01 as confirmed by the BC Auditor-General.

See page 32 of the 2001/02 Auditor-General report (released when the Liberals were in office)

http://bcauditor.com/PUBS/2001-02/Report4/MonitorGovFinances.pdf

FACT: The Liberals took power and produced a budget with a massive deficit of $3.4 billion in 2001/02, largely the result of $2 billion in tax cuts to the rich.

http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/bgt2002/BudgetAndFiscalPlan/bgt2002_summary.htm

That increased to another gigantic deficit of $3.8 billion in 2002/02

http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/bgt2003/bfp/bgt2003_summary.htm

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I'm not complaining about Dosanjh working on vacation. I complain that he's off on a junket when he should be working.

Junket? Repeat after me, he paid for his trip. It was a personal vacation. It was a holiday.

Stop lying.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I think he's hamstrung by a Congress that will not approve of cuts to social programs.

Social programmes have been cut, but it would be impossible to cut $450 billion in social programs. Besides, IIRC, the Republicans control the US Congress.

The fact is that Bush has created a massive deficit. If you are opposed to deficit spending then you must be opposed to Bush. Otherwise you're a hypocrite.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by VJ
[threadjack from a non-canuck]

I just hate it when people insist that women should be in power just because they are women. Would it be impossible to consider that, you know, Martin actually selected the best persons for the job?

[/threadjack from a non-canuck]

Well, yes, but the current system is setup in a way that prevents women from acquiring the trivial qualifications needed to be Cabinet material.

Democracy works because it is representative, because it keeps the government in touch and gives it a mandate. A Swedish-style, or a German-style, or a Kiwi-style parliamentary system is at least as effective as our current one, except that they lack our system's bias in favour of the oligarchic plurality and represent the populace better.

[notyoueither]

Someone accusing the opponents of the NDP in BC of lying seems rather rich. Didn't the NDP produce a budget for an election, win the election, and then go 'oops'?

I seem to recall something like that. It might explain how they got murdered in the next election.

[Tingkai]

Yes, Clark used excessively optimistic forecasts that turned out to be wrong, but these were forecasts.

Even if he was deliberately lying that doesn't justify Ben's lying here and now.

I'm no fan of Clark so if you want to call him a liar, go ahead, I won't argue about it. He was the worst thing that happened to the NDP.

[Ben Kenobi]

Someone accusing the opponents of the NDP in BC of lying seems rather rich. Didn't the NDP produce a budget for an election, win the election, and then go 'oops'?

Yep, the Fudge it budget.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why are you doing that? Why are you ignoring the facts? Why are you criticising him for taking a holiday when everyone takes a holiday?

Why are you criticising him for going to his house?

Could it be connected to Dosanjh's religion?

Here's a quote for you, Tingkai, from a guest columnist to the Indo-Canadian voice.

"I became media spokesperson for Dosanjh during his NDP leadership bid because Ujjal couldn’t talk to the media without creating problems. In 2000 I joined Dosanjh’s senior staff in the Premier’s office. He should have called an early election, but he was busy with personal matters such as moving out of his constituency and into a more befitting home on Southwest Marine Drive. Following a holiday to India in December 2000, he returned to receive reports that the NDP was on the verge of a total wipeout. I urged him to prepare for the election; he said that he was going to leave for China on a Team Canada Mission. I resigned in disgust. I believe that lobbying for an appointment to the senate may have been his priority, but right or wrong, subsequent events have shown that Dosanjh is focused on himself."

http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2004/Ujjal.html

Racist?

That's laughable. If people inside the Indo-Canadian community raise the same complaints that I do, it can hardly be that I am bigoted against Sikhs.