Paul Martin's Cabinet

[optimus2861]

I think the cabinet is ridiculously ****ing large. I counted 38 members; that's almost 30% of the entire Liberal caucus, and isn't far off the size of some provincial legislatures (it's already bigger than PEI's).

For instance, we've got a Minister of Health, a Minister of State for Public Health, and a Minister of State for Families and Caregivers. WTH do the latter two do that can't be covered by the first? (I do realize there's some distinction between Minister of State and full Minister, but I'd be surprised if it amounts to much other than an excuse to give two more MPs a better seat at the trough)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed optimus. I thought that perhaps it was just common for Canada to have massive cabinets .

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed optimus. I thought that perhaps it was just common for Canada to have massive cabinets .

It is common, and it's probably rediculous at the same time.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed optimus. I thought that perhaps it was just common for Canada to have massive cabinets .

This one is fairly large by our standards.

AFAIK the average Cabinet size is about 25.

It might have expanded in recent years however.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm as much of an extremist as you are, but at least I can separate what I wish were true from what I know is true.

Well, I've seen Dosanjh, and I think he will be a horrible Health minister given his record here in BC.

You are certainly entitled to disagree with me here, but I do not think that him being a caretaker of the NDP is anything to assist a resume.

He did not win an election here in BC, rather, he was appointed by a party that anticipated defeat.

Secondly, what did he do as the Premier of BC? Nothing. He took trips to India instead of calling a sitting of the legislature, and frequently took time off to inspect the renovations to his home.

[Ben Kenobi]

The media going on witch hunts doesn't help either, but hey, if no one jumped at the chance to be the media's witch the hunts wouldn't go on very long.

Ms. Hot Cross Buns didn't seem hurt despite her lies in the Commons.

Once again, she got elected.

Why one standard for Conservatives, and another for Liberals? At least the Conservatives can only be charged with a difference in opinion, and not outright distortion.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Did anyone see Scott Brison being sworn in? He made an ass of himself trying to read his oath in French... he's obviously never spoken it before.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Ms. Hot Cross Buns didn't seem hurt despite her lies in the Commons.

Once again, she got elected.

Why one standard for Conservatives, and another for Liberals? At least the Conservatives can only be charged with a difference in opinion, and not outright distortion.

You are right that there is a double standard. The trouble is that many people expected the Conservatives to have a lot of loons from the right, their opponents and some in the media encouraged that perception, AND THEN you had candidates jumping up and doing the Arnold Horshack.

Harper was doing a great job of representing that Conservatives don't have horns. Trouble is that people like Gallant and White then put the doubt back in peoples' minds with stupid, stupid comments. That allowed Martin to get out the boots and lay them into Harper on health care while the Conservatives were in disarray and having to argue about troglodytes again.

It ain't fair. It's politics.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
You are certainly entitled to disagree with me here, but I do not think that him being a caretaker of the NDP is anything to assist a resume.

He did not win an election here in BC, rather, he was appointed by a party that anticipated defeat.

Secondly, what did he do as the Premier of BC? Nothing. He took trips to India instead of calling a sitting of the legislature, and frequently took time off to inspect the renovations to his home.

Stop lying Ben.

Dosanjh did not take "trips" to India while premier. He took one trip for a family holiday. Everyone is entitled to a vacation.

While he was in India, he took time out from his vacation to drum up business for BC. What happens? Conservative extremists crucify him for trying to help the BC economy. The nerve of the guy!

And are you serious criticising him for going home? Do you seriously think that a premier must work seven days a week, 24 hours a day?

And get your story straight. If he did nothing, as you claim, then that wouldn't make him a horrible premier. If he was a caretaker for a party anticipating defeat (your words) then it is not realistic to expect a lot.

You can't have it both ways.

And even you must be able to admit that he was a premier during a major global recession following the collapse of the Internet bubble. To suggest that the NDP was soley responsible for the economic problems in BC is ludicrous.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dosanjh did not take "trips" to India while premier. He took one trip for a family holiday. Everyone is entitled to a vacation.

At the expense of the taxpayer?

While he was in India, he took time out from his vacation to drum up business for BC. What happens? Conservative extremists crucify him for trying to help the BC economy. The nerve of the guy!

Did he go to visit family, or was this a trade junket? Make up your mind.

And are you serious criticising him for going home? Do you seriously think that a premier must work seven days a week, 24 hours a day?

No, I criticise him for how he conducted himself as Premier in taking a vacation when Parliament should have been sitting.

And get your story straight. If he did nothing, as you claim, then that wouldn't make him a horrible premier. If he was a caretaker for a party anticipating defeat (your words) then it is not realistic to expect a lot.

True, but it doesn't mean that he gets all the credit he has been getting for being a Premier.

Seems he's getting all the credit, without having done much of the work normally associated with the position.

And even you must be able to admit that he was a premier during a major global recession following the collapse of the Internet bubble. To suggest that the NDP was soley responsible for the economic problems in BC is ludicrous.

I blame the NDP for overspending and saddling BC with a 4 billion dollar deficit, not the recession. If they had showed some fiscal restraint, we would be in a much better position now.

[Wezil]

lol, a few points

The new Cabinet - same **** in a larger bag.

It will be the committees that will be important in the upcoming session. Opposition parties now form majorities in committee and will have more say in how they run (ie the Liberal shut down when things get embarrassing will be thwarted).

and a final note....

Rae wasn't responsible for his disastrous government in Ontario and apparently Dosanjh is not responsible in BC. Bad times everywhere to blame. I find it strange how NDP and bad times seem to go together.....

[Wezil]

..and another thing


Mr Martin claims he wanted a Cabinet that could "hit the ground running"....

I guess they have a long way to reach the ground since they won't be returning till October. Another case of Martin saying one thing and doing another.

[Seeker]

I guess the question has already been raised but WTF do we need so many 'extra departments of redundancy and superfluity'?

This country has fought wars with smaller cabinets.

The problem is that 'cabinet level representation' is a symbolic sop thrown to some constituency, and pretty meaningless. More voices means less hearing.

Does anyone think that the 'Honourable Minister for Silly Walks' or whatever special interest is going to get the same level of attention as 'real' ministers with real portfolios?

They should seriously consolidate the number of ministers. Particularly in Health those are jobs that should be done within the existing non-elected bureacracy.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by notyoueither
You are right that there is a double standard. The trouble is that many people expected the Conservatives to have a lot of loons from the right, their opponents and some in the media encouraged that perception, AND THEN you had candidates jumping up and doing the Arnold Horshack.

arper was doing a great job of representing that Conservatives don't have horns. Trouble is that people like Gallant and White then put the doubt back in peoples' minds with stupid, stupid comments. That allowed Martin to get out the boots and lay them into Harper on health care while the Conservatives were in disarray and having to argue about troglodytes again.

It ain't fair. It's politics.

Well, the fact that Harper said that he'd let backbenchers determine social policy and then there were these backbenchers explaning what social policy they want wasn't a winning combination.

I wouldn't say that there necessarily is a double standard. People don't vote for Liberal or NDP MPs. People vote for the NDP or the Liberals. The opinions of individual NDP or Liberal MPs determine party policy, but they vote as a block so individual loons don't really matter.

Eh.

[St Leo]

BTW, there aren't enough women in the cabinet.