Philippines bends over and spreads 'em wide

[Cruddy]

Re: Philippines bends over and spreads 'em wide

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

to the Philippines

While I don't agree with the decision, most Fillipinos do.

Going with the will of the majority... is called democracy.

[Q Classic]

No one here claimed that the Turks didn't have a right to join / allow military access or not. We were disappointed that we got mixed signals that delayed the planning and eventually execution of our campaign, and were finally rebuffed by a long time ally who we hoped would stand by us. Remember that when we abandon you Kiwis to the tender mercies of whichever micro-power you piss off in the future.

and threats like this will make us in the us liked/respected more because....?

[Verto]

Who wants to bet the terrorists renege on the deal when the Phillipine troops are gone?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/15/philippines.hostage/index.html

[lord of the mark]

Of course the Phillipines is a democracy and has right to pull its troops out (which they were scheduled to do in august anyway). And of course this wont help US-Phillipine relations, though its IMHO unlikely the US will cut support for the Phil. military, since its not in our interests for AbuSayaf/MILF/JI to win. The Philippine decision will not endear them to the govt of Iraq, but thats probably low on their list of priorities. If this is followed by more kidnappings of coalition of the willing personnel, those states probably wont be too pleased either.


Apparently New Zealand and Thailand are scheduled to withdraw in Sept and are likely to do so. No one else is scheduled to do so till after elections in beginning of '05, by which time there should be alot more Iraqi forces available. Meanwhile Australia, Skorea, Georgia, and I think Azerbaijan are all INCREASING forces.

[lord of the mark]

Of course the Phillipines is a democracy and has right to pull its troops out (which they were scheduled to do in august anyway). And of course this wont help US-Phillipine relations, though its IMHO unlikely the US will cut support for the Phil. military, since its not in our interests for AbuSayaf/MILF/JI to win. The Philippine decision will not endear them to the govt of Iraq, but thats probably low on their list of priorities. If this is followed by more kidnappings of coalition of the willing personnel, those states probably wont be too pleased either.


Apparently New Zealand and Thailand are scheduled to withdraw in Sept and are likely to do so. No one else is scheduled to do so till after elections in beginning of '05, by which time there should be alot more Iraqi forces available. Meanwhile Australia, Skorea, Georgia, and I think Azerbaijan are all INCREASING forces.

Jordan and Yemen have offered forces (for UN protection) - the Iraqi govt doesnt particulary want forces from a neighboring state, and may decline the Jordanians. They are asking India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Malaysia, and Morocco for troops however.

Currently the only muslim states in the MNF are the Kazakhs, the Azeris, and of course the Albanians.

[KrazyHorse]

Howard enjoys digging himself in deeper and deeper.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It was a still-born revolution, but a revolution nonetheless.

No, a revolution requires an overthrow and sucession, something which never happened. Is it my fault that these 'encylopedias' use the term incorrectly? Nope. Hell, some of them claim France is 'socialist'. Why should I trust them?

The Filippinos successfully established their own Republic with Aguinaldo as the first president, before being stabbed in the back by the American invaders.

Yes, "successfully establised their own Republic" So there was a Chechnian revolution and a Southern US revolution? And don't forget the FARC revolution! After all they both said they established their own Republics. Of course they were not recognized by anyone else. And, of course, the Spanish never renunciated their rule on the Phillipines, but what does that matter in Borisland?

Major pwnage of Boris once again. One wonders if he'll ever stop coming back for more and more *****slaps?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And, of course, the Spanish never renunciated their rule on the Phillipines, but what does that matter in Borisland?

I got a problem with this bit . . . . . sometimes a country that is egoistical enough will make proclamations that splatter in the face of reality.


So in this case, Spain could make all the proclamations they wanted to until they got blue in the face -- mere words did not prevent the revolution from nearly succeeding. It was United States that took up imperial rule in place of Spain that preempted the other possible conclusion of the revolution.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Spain could make all the proclamations they wanted to until they got blue in the face -- mere words did not prevent the revolution from nearly succeeding. It was United States that took up imperial rule in place of Spain that preempted the other possible conclusion of the revolution.

Perhaps so... but in order for a state to be legitimate in the world system, it must be recognized by other states and a native Filipino state was in no way close to be recognized by others. What would have happened is probably the Spanish would have kept holding on only to be defeated by the British or French and they would have taken up rulership. I seriously doubt that the natives would have ever won independance back in 1898.

[MrFun]

Hold onto what, if Spain was already expelled from the islands except for Manila -- Spain would have lost Manila had United States not intervened.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Perhaps so... but in order for a state to be legitimate in the world system, it must be recognized by other states and a native Filipino state was in no way close to be recognized by others. What would have happened is probably the Spanish would have kept holding on only to be defeated by the British or French and they would have taken up rulership. I seriously doubt that the natives would have ever won independance back in 1898.

What stood on their way then was the willingness of European powers to accept non-white colonies successfully breaking off-and thus would nto allow for a Phillipino state even if they had full control of the country.

[MrFun]

So true GePap -- the "white man's burden" ideology was very strong in the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century.

[lord of the mark]

haiti was recognized.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, a revolution requires an overthrow and sucession,

Imran, I already proved you flat-out wrong here. Must you continue to embarrass yourself like this? Here, I'll repeat it.

From Merriam-Webster's dictionary:

"b : a fundamental change in political organization; especially : the overthrow or renunciation of one government or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed"

You can bury your head in the sand all you want, rant and rave and keep dancing around it, but your little run to the dictionary to be a semantics baby has just hoisted you on your own petard.

The Filippinos successfully established their own Republic with Aguinaldo as the first president, before being stabbed in the back by the American invaders.

So there was a Chechnian revolution and a Southern US revolution? And don't forget the FARC revolution! After all they both said they established their own Republics.

Can you find me significant sources that refer to these as "revolutions?" I have the Encyclopedia Britannica on my side, in addition to numerous books, which is far more than...well, your own incredulity, which is not a particularly effective, enlightening or interesting source.

And, of course, the Spanish never renunciated their rule on the Phillipines, but what does that matter in Borisland?

And this means what as to the definition of revolution? Oh, nothing. Imran, Spain had no effective control of the Philippines by 1898. Aguinaldo had forced them behind the walls of Manila and held the rest of the country. Spain was done, finished, kaput by that point. They had nothing left with which to fight in the region, and could hardly dispatch any sizeable reinforcements.

You're grasping at straws, man. Just admit it...you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Ramo]

haiti was recognized.

Over half a century after it declared independence (at least by us).