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  • #46
    Originally posted by Agathon


    I've never heard of the Kaplan bloke, but I actually like pragmatists.

    Kaplan, trained orthodox, taught at Conservative Jewish seminary, went on to found Reconstructioniat Judaism.

    Influenced by the secular humanist zionism and liberalism of achad haam, and by the philosophy of John Dewey.

    Founder of the "religious naturalist" approach to Judaism . "God means the sum of the forces in the universe that make for salvation" "God is NOT something supernatural" An attempt to reconcile Jewish God language with an approach that denies the supernatural. Theres actually just enough basis in Jewish texts for doing so, that its not completely forced, IIRC.

    "There is no God, and Kaplan is His prophet" - Snarky remark on the role of his personality in the Reconstructionist movement (and on its theological radicalism). But he WAS apparently a very charismatic teacher. Conservative rabbis trained AFTER Kaplan left the seminary tend to be more traditional in their theology than those trained while he was there.

    Is Judaism a religion, a nation, or what? "Its a religious civilization" While the religious elements are distinctive and essential (though in need to reinterpretation to make them valid for moderns - see above) its artificial and inauthentic to seperate them from the wider civilization, including literature, music, folkways, etc.


    someone elses summary of Kaplans views.

    "Judaism is an evolving religious civilization. While our dispersion throughout the world has resulted in some cultural differences, by and large we are united by a common religious civilization and must work toward transcending the differences which would divide us. Our common history is the source of our covenant and what motivates and "commands" us to live Jewishly.

    Kaplan did not understand God as a supernatural force in the universe, but rather as the power which makes possible personal salvation, which Kaplan understand as the "worthwhileness of life." "God is the sum of all the animating organizing forces and relationships which are forever making a cosmos out of chaos," Kaplan wrote. God cannot abridge the laws of nature for God is synonymous with natural law.

    Prayer is necessary because it helps us become conscious of our conscience, the force within which mediates our relationships and our ability to realize salvation. Moreover, prayer with the community focuses our attention on the community and its needs. And finally, worship offers a release of emotion that can orient us in a positive psychological direction.

    Kaplan rejected several traditional Jewish categories, most notably Chosenness. He felt that the term was misunderstood and too often taken as a sign of Jewish superiority, when instead it was conceived as an expression of Jewish obligation to God and humanity. So, too, Kaplan rejected the idea of a personal messiah (that is, that God will send a messiah in the form of a human being). He wrote the "Sabbath Prayer Book" in which he expunged both notions from the prayers. Some Reconstructionist synagogues employ a different version of the Torah blessings to this day, avoiding the phrase "...asher bachar banu mi-kol ha-amim..." (...Who chose us from all the peoples...). "
    Last edited by lord of the mark; July 9, 2004, 11:33.
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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    • #47
      Originally posted by germanos


      [jack]He doesn't care. He did great for the USA, don't you get the point?
      The fact he didn't immigrate doesn't matter either.[/jack]

      Immigrants are, in general, beneficiary (sp?) to the country they move to.
      My point was that he benefited the US, not that he was a nice guy.

      Did he not immigrate - he lived in the US for the last years of his life - did he not take citizenship??
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #48
        Not that, either. See my sig.
        www.my-piano.blogspot

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Agathon


          And you think this is good?
          Yes. Would you have rather had conventional conflict between the superpowers?

          Vote Agathon for an instant suntan!
          Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
          "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Ramo
            make all immigration legal




            And,
            Fermi
            Nukes
            Don't forget Dr Strangelove
            Speaking of Erith:

            "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Urban Ranger

              Phobia is more of a fear than a dislike, though.
              Hatred is the offspring of fear. People hate what they fear.

              Or maybe hate is the reaction to fear.

              Technically, phobia means "fear". But hatred/dislike is close to it and often results from it.
              Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
              "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

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              • #52
                Led Zeppelin
                Immigrant Song


                Ah, ah,
                We come from the land of the ice and snow,
                From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
                The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
                To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!

                On we sweep with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore.

                Ah, ah,
                We come from the land of the ice and snow,
                From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
                How soft your fields so green, can whisper tales of gore,
                Of how we calmed the tides of war. We are your overlords.

                On we sweep with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore.

                So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
                For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing.
                I watched you fall. I think I pushed.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Smiley
                  So you hate rather than fear?
                  He hates out of fear, and therefore it is apt to say he is homophobic.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                  • #54
                    Who hates? I don't hate gays..I just don't support gay marriage. That doesn't mean I fear, dislike or hate gays does it. Just I think marriage is more important than to be denigrated in such a way.
                    www.my-piano.blogspot

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                    • #55
                      From one of my posts on your troll thread on 3rd generation immigrants:

                      Fear is one of the most powerful of all emotions. I, as an emotivist would claim that your emotions are the basis of your "moral" or philosophical positions, whether conscious or unconscious, I'm sure the latter is such in your case because if you were a liar you wouldn't repeatedly make an idiot of yourself. Perhaps in the familial sense, literal homophobia is an inaccurate term however there is also a familial interpretation of the word which fits you like a glove. Literally of course, homophobia does fit but not without some degree of consideration.
                      "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
                      "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Park Avenue
                        Who hates? I don't hate gays..I just don't support gay marriage. That doesn't mean I fear, dislike or hate gays does it.
                        No, Stewie, that isn't going to work. I've seen too many of your posts -- I'm not basing this off of your opinion of gay marriage, but the vulgarity of your posts regarding homosexuals over the years.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                        • #57
                          make all immigration legal


                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Park Avenue
                            Who hates? I don't hate gays..I just don't support gay marriage. That doesn't mean I fear, dislike or hate gays does it. Just I think marriage is more important than to be denigrated in such a way.
                            I hope if you ever emigrate it's to a country with a very low standard for stand up comedy, because I have to tell you, that just ain't cutting it.

                            Unless you're emigrating to the Land of Unknowing Irony, or perhaps Dipstickistan.
                            Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                            ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Park Avenue
                              Who hates? I don't hate gays..I just don't support gay marriage. That doesn't mean I fear, dislike or hate gays does it. Just I think marriage is more important than to be denigrated in such a way.
                              I hope if you ever emigrate it's to a country with a very low standard for stand up comedy, because I have to tell you, that just ain't cutting it.

                              Unless you're emigrating to the Land of Unknowing Irony, or perhaps Dipstickistan.
                              Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                              ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I'm not scared of gays, Europe or Islam though.
                                Same here.

                                The term 'arachnophobia' is used to mean a fear of spiders. So why should a homophobe be simply one who disagrees with homosexuals?

                                I can disagree with them, but I sure don't fear them in the way an arachnophobe fears spiders, or a claustrophobe fears enclosed spaces.
                                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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