So, have YOU seen "Fahrenheit 9/11"?

[The diplomat]

Re: Re: Re: So, have YOU seen "Fahrenheit 9/11"?

Originally posted by Sava
proper context? in the golf scene where Bush mocks the terrorism issue... what other context could this have been in?

My point is that Moore deliberately uses this scene with edits to make Bush look bad on terrorism. Bush is not indifferent to terrorism, but showing a scene where a reporter asks him about terrorism and he says "I want to get back to my golf swing" will give that impression.

you should go see it diplomat... Joe Scarborough urged all his viewers to see it... that way we can have a debate about it!

Are you sure? What if it makes me go crazy and I go on a rampage killing liberals?

[Agathon]

You can't rant on about it unless you've actually seen it.

All the complaints I have heard so far ignore the context of the movie. There isn't much that hasn't been said before in it – all Moore does is collect it and piece it together in an aesthetically pleasing way. It's actually quite a patriotic film – in the sections where US soldiers are doing bad things Moore doesn't blame them, rather he adopts the "war is hell" position. Moreover the movie ends by praising those who serve, but stating that those whom they serve have an obligation never to put them in harm's way unless absolutely necessary. Given that it is now a proven fact that the war was not necessary, that is all that needs to be said to condemn Bush (who I still think will win in November).

[Guynemer]

#1: Let's give Verto a little credit here, folks. At the very least, he is not making the usual BfC attacks, that the film is "anti-gun" and blames everything on the NRA. Verto was obviously paying attention when Moore took care to show that Canada has the same rate of firearm ownership, but a far lower rate of homicide. It is rather unsporting of us to assume that he didn't pay attention to the rest of the film.

#2: I'm going to see the new film tomorrow. Apparently, shows are already sold out through tonight and tomorrow; lucky I got the ticket early. I had all but written off Ohio as going Red again in November; now, I'm not so sure.

[Agathon]

I couldn't believe how packed the theatre was. The only other time I've seen something like this was for Fellowship of the Ring.

[Docfeelgood]

I wish the movie had dealt in more detail with the question of how Bush was able to play so many apparently rational people for saps.

They voted for him

[Agathon]

One can forgive them for voting for him as it wasn't evident that he'd be quite this bad.

I'm surprised more aren't angry at being made saps.

[Gibsie]

I think most of them know deep down that they were being lied to, but since they voted for him, couldn't bring themselves to accept how big a blunder that was.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Agathon
One can forgive them for voting for him as it wasn't evident that he'd be quite this bad.

I'm surprised more aren't angry at being made saps.

Because the right has scared moderates and some liberals from making any bad statements of the president. They've convinced people that if you say any bad words about Bush during war time you are unpatriotic or traitorous. Even some on this board tried that.

Slowly, however, that is turning around. I hope it turns enough by November 11th.

[monolith94]

My review:

Fahrenheit 9/11 is an invigorating, emotional experience - less Moore-focused and more issue-focused than his previous effort, Bowling For Columbine. This makes it more of a return to excellence - he has not made a film of this quality since Roger and Me.

It isn't nearly as funny as Bowling For Columbine, but that seems appropriate. What humor there is seems to be of a much more gallows-humor - the sort of dark humor that makes you laugh and feel strangely guilty all at once.

I thought it was interesting to note the way Fahrenheit 9/11 was structured and framed. It begins with us exploring the corridors of power, takes a long and hard look then at the ramifications of power, and then returns to those same corridors and places them in a new context. Bush simply stating that he doesn't know what it feels like to lose a son isn't that powerful by itself, but when we see it after the trials of a mother who actually has lost a son, and wonder what her son's death was for, Bush becomes a figure of revulsion. It's old fashioned contextual movie manipulation, but I'll be damned if it's not well-executed.

The beginning may be a bit too stretched, and Moore's inferences concerning connections occasionally come off a bit forced, but this ends with quite, QUITE shocking footage of the war. A look at the war that we haven't seen in the news since, oh, say, Vietnam?

All in all, excellent. This is a film that forces one to read between the lines and also examine the masks that politicians wear, while at the same time tearing those masks down.

[Spiffor]

As muich as I dislike, I must agree with Imran and Verto (well, I'm drunk, it may help to remove inhibitions). Moore doesn't say wrong things directly, but the way he directs his documentaries imply it.
The same way the Bushies subtly implied Saddam was responsible with Sept. 11 without ever actually saying it (don't forget, most Americans believed this outrageous claim at some point).

I don't know if Moore is bullet-proof about the truth in his movies, but I trust him to be smart enough to use very few clear-cut lies. What he uses, howeveer, are half-lies (i.e. "forgetting" to give facts ruining his presentation), and using the feelings of the audience to imply something he doesn't expressly voice.

Don't get me wrong: I'm damn glad there is somebody to push the US to the left, since the US is such an outrageously far-right country. However, his methods are not something the 'refined' leftists (read: the leftist who came there because they really thought about the issues) should ocndone.

[DRoseDARs]

Short and sweet:
Great movie.

Bit longer:
I don't much care for Moore, but this movie wasn't about him. There wasn't much new in it that I didn't already know, but it was packaged in a way that was respectfully humorous (well...maybe not for Bush & Associates, Inc.) where appropriate. Loved the Bonanza tie-in and using the "They have a saying in Tennessee..." gem as the final scene. The theater erupted with laughter, groans, and applause with that.

Outside theater #9, quite a line was forming for the 5pm showing...

[Sava]

This movie was absolutely excellent. Moore presents the facts and the horrifying truth about war, 9-11, Bush and the Saudis. I cried at three different parts, and at the end I wiped tears. The theatre erupted in applause at the end of the movie... there were lines for the next show as we left.

This movie should be required viewing for every man, woman, and child in America. ESPECIALLY for Bush supporters or Iraq war supporters. They need to sit and look at the images of this war. They need to see the amputee "wounded" soldiers who are the forgotten casualties. They need to see the bodies of the innocent Iraqi children murdered by the US military. There's no such thing as collateral damage. This is murder, plain and simple. Bush is a war criminal. And if you don't see the light after watching this movie, you need your ****ing head examined. And if you still support the war in Iraq or support Bush after seeing this movie, may God have mercy on your soul, because anyone who supports such evil will surely burn in hell. I hope with all my heart there is a God. I hope the poor Iraqi women crying for Allah are heard and answered.

James Baker, the Bushes, Cheney, Rummy, the Carlyle group, those ****ing murdering Saudi mother****ers... they all deserve to die (after due process of course). The blood is on their hands. Their money is soaked with the blood of the innocent... and if there is a God, they will surely pay in the next world for the evil atrocities and war crimes they are responsible for.

Michael Moore... thank you. May God bless you. You are a hero and a patriot.

And shame on the Democrats... shame on them for allowing this to happen. Shame on them for not questioning our "great leader" when we needed it most. Shame on the Democratic Senators who did not support the Congressional Black Caucus after the 2000 election (explained in the beginning of the movie). I may forgive the Democratic Party for allowing Bush to commit atrocities in America's name. I don't hate America. I hate the evil, wicked men who have conspired to create war in order to fuel their lust for money. I hate the men who have hijacked my government for their evil purposes.

There is little room for grey in this matter. It's a pure question of good and evil. Support for Bush or support for war in Iraq is support of evil. And only an ignorant fool or a wicked soul would support such things.

That is all.

God Bless America (and everybody else)

[chequita guevara]

I saw it twice today. As I was leaving, a group of my former coworkers was walking in, so I turned around and went back with them.

Without a doubt, this is one of the most powerful movies I've ever seen. It is easily his best work ever. I cried several times during the movie.

All I can say is, just go see it. If you don't want to give Moore money, see it as a matinee, or buy a ticket to another movie and sneak in. Just go see it.

Spoiler:

The saddest part of the movie is when the soldier with permanent nerve damage talks about how he's gonna become an organizer for the Democratic Party after having been a Republican his whole life, when the movie explained how the Democrats betrayed their constituants early in the Bush coup. In my theater, people clapped and cheered at that part, having apparently forgotten the cowardace the Democrats displayed towards the Republicans.

[chequita guevara]

Brittney comes out looking like a total idiot.

[DRoseDARs]

The fits of laughter in my theater when she appeared on-screen, in all her gum-smacking glory, can attest to that Che.