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So, have YOU seen "Fahrenheit 9/11"?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Boris Godunov


    Man, you really don't have a clue what either Moore or chegitz were saying.

    Take a breather, read the post slooooowly and keep it all in context.
    I understand what he meant. But it is hard to be influenced by an event when they probably didn't even know it was going on. But it could be argued other wars, like WW2 or Vietnam, could have had an effect on them.

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    • #62
      Verto, how could anyone not know that we were at war? Do you think there are people who don't know we've invaded Iraq?
      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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      • #63
        He was at the same time pointing out that we are a violent and warlike society, and that a culture of violence (for which Lockheed is the representitive) is going to breed violence in its children.
        America's Army

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        • #64
          Originally posted by chegitz guevara
          Verto, how could anyone not know that we were at war? Do you think there are people who don't know we've invaded Iraq?
          Simple cluelessness. I do believe it is possible. I knew people who didn't know we had gone into Iraq for several months after it occurred. And Iraq has been extremely publicized.

          EDIT: But I will admit this is stretching it. I still doubt it affected them at all, though.

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          • #65
            He was deliberately trying to make an absurd point, in order to point out the absurdity of blaming a goth rocker or a video game. He was at the same time pointing out that we are a violent and warlike society, and that a culture of violence (for which Lockheed is the representitive) is going to breed violence in its children.


            So he was trying to make an absurd point and say L-M is somewhat responsible at the same time . I'm not exactly sure L-M is the representative for a 'culture' of violence. I wonder if Moore will ever go and **** on Hollywood... nah, that's where the liberal live.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • #66
              Originally posted by chegitz guevara
              But he never makes clear where the culture of violence comes from. He goes through and trashes the myths of the right and the left as to why we have so much violence. I did not come away from that movie thinking that Moore had an answer other than we should treat each other with dignity and respect.
              It's true, he doesn't really seem to have any kind of central statement in that movie.
              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

                So he was trying to make an absurd point and say L-M is somewhat responsible at the same time . I'm not exactly sure L-M is the representative for a 'culture' of violence. I wonder if Moore will ever go and **** on Hollywood... nah, that's where the liberal live.
                The "point" about Lockheed Martin as I saw it was this: Lokheed Martin is the main employer in this part of Colorado, and the main business of it is the business of war. Now, ***** all you want about Hollywood, but while hollywood my show pretend death, it is LM and "the military-industrial complex" that makes the instruments of REAL death.

                It is a teneous point, but if anything, just as valid, if not more valid than the oft made "liberal media" connection you are so inelequently restating. He is at most presenting a possible alternative viewpoint. As such, it can't possibly be seen as a "lie", since it isn't anything but another narrative to counter the anti-hollywood one.
                If you don't like reality, change it! me
                "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                • #68
                  Why would I pay to watch a movie and enrich someone that I despise?
                  We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                  If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                  Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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                  • #69
                    the problem with people *****ing about the truth of michael moore is they dont want truth from their side...

                    its always "look at what the other guy is doing but not me". moore does it as a career, but hes entertaining and harmless about it. people running the country arent.
                    "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                    'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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                    • #70
                      I'm curious. How big was the theater you went to and how full was it?
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Verto
                        For the umpteenthtime, I have seen BfC. So, speaking of libel.
                        My apologies. I mistook some of Giancarlo's rantings about the latest movie as being yours.

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                        • #72
                          zing!

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                          • #73
                            I saw it in a packed theatre downtown. Easily Moore's best film. After reading some of the criticisms of it I can see that the right don't have much. For example, complaining about his ambushing congressmen without making it clear that the whole exercise takes place after we have just seen a woman howl her guts out over her dead son.

                            Anyway, the movie doesn't say much that is new. What it does do is make it clear, in a way anyone could understand, how thoroughly the political right have been pwned over every single argument to do with the war. Hence the bluster and misrepresentation in the place of any substantive criticism.

                            In a clear indication that the movie must be on the ball, that corpulent fool Christopher Hitchens is its most vocal critic – the same Hitchens who claimed that "Mother Theresa is evil" and "Bill Clinton is a rapist".

                            PS. There's a horrible sequence of an official Saudi public beheading. Of course the Saudis are our eternal allies in the struggle against people who commit such barbaric acts.
                            Only feebs vote.

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                            • #74
                              I wish the movie had dealt in more detail with the question of how Bush was able to play so many apparently rational people for saps.
                              Only feebs vote.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Agathon
                                I wish the movie had dealt in more detail with the question of how Bush was able to play so many apparently rational people for saps.
                                one word . . . . .


                                propaganda
                                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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