Is the EU going to dissolve to a simple free trade area?

[Bereta_Eder]

That's the expression you'll have when Croatia beats you too my little frued.

[Solly]

I'm not your frued

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
"Because removal of the political entity could stir up badwill in other EU nations who then buy products from different nations instead."

How likely?

Very. Think how the French acted towards the US over Iraq. Now make that an area with 50% of our trade. We'd easily lose 1 or 2% from it.

Originally posted by Park Avenue
So we'll be able to make champagne and parma ham too?

IIRC, Champagne is a worldwide trademark. But yes on Parma Ham. However Champagne of quality can't be made here. Cheese can be made anywhere.

Originally posted by Park Avenue
"Also without the political integration some cross border work will be harder, due to the different regulations in place and the lack of industry harmonisation."

Whatever this means...

It means that MNCs with offices in the EU and the UK will find harmonisation harder, due to different regulations, laws and standards. This will cause a lack of investment in countries coming into the EU (they'll choose elsewhere) as well as disrupting UK companies trading in Europe, due to different standardisation.

You're an economics graduate that doesn't understand what industry harmonisation is and how it benefits multi-national companies?

Originally posted by Park Avenue
"Add to that the lower inward investment, as countries wanting to have a base inside the EU, to keep inside the external tariff, will more likely relocate to an area with the same industry, currency and trading rules as the rest of the EU, than the UK, meaning we'll import their goods, rather then exporting them to the EU."

Ah the old "inward investment" argument - if we don't do this, if we don't do that "we'll lose inward investment". Well guess what, it's completely fallacious.

It isn't. You think companies are *exactly* as likely to choose the UK for their Europe base, when wanting to enter the EU, if we have different industry regulations, different standards and different laws? Or do you think this *might* prompt them to think of other countries, when they were wavering about the UK or another nation?

I used to work for Texas Instruments at their European Headquaters, in the UK. They said, if the UK came out of the EU, it would make standardising their operations with their EU production and sales bases so hard that they would relocate to inside the EU. I know how hard it is, standardisation of their financial systems was my job.

Sure, it's just one company, but if they thought that way, surely some others must. Every company that leaves the UK like that, takes quite a few jobs with it. And that's a company actually deciding to relocate if we left, not just one deciding which nation to enter. Add to that the drop in inward investment to the UK as a % of total EU inward investment from 28% to 5% since the Euro launched, as someone posted earlier, and the 'fallacious' argument that the Euro and EU are good for inward investment seems to have legs to stand on. A simple dismissal of all this evidence as fallacious doesn't.

The argument isn't fallacious, but you're unwavering belief that no-one will be annoyed with us if we leave, that no company will see being out of the EU as a problem for them, and that no company benefits from any EU standardisation is quite remarkably naieve, IMHO. If the EU would give us a free trade area, if companies didn't see deharmonisation as a problem for cross-border work, if inward investment wouldn't be swayed to the EU and if the EU citizens wouldn't try to spite us by choosing other products, then you'd have a point. That's a hell of a lot of unfounded assumptions though. Indeed one of which, companies not leaving the UK, I know to be false.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Drogue

IIRC, Champagne is a worldwide trademark. But yes on Parma Ham. However Champagne of quality can't be made here. Cheese can be made anywhere.

Not sure what you mean by world wide trademark. Sparkling wines made in California and New York are routinely labeled Champagne. (even when not made Methode Champagnois, which is the real scandal) UK cant make quality Champagne, but they CAN import Corbell, etc from California, and if the French dont negotiate, it can be labeled Champagne, instead of sparkling wine.

[Combat Ingrid]

I'm sure UK could leave EU and still be part of the free trade area. You would probably just have to do like Norway: have the EU rules (which you would no longer be able to influence) forced down your throat and pay billions upon billions to the French farmers every year

[Drogue]

Exactly. Which we don't want. I think we should have used Iraq, the constitution, and just about anything else we can, as a bargaining tool to rid us of the CAP. I'd even agree to break our red lines on defence and foreign policy if we removed the CAP.

Down with evil legislature!

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
I'm sure UK could leave EU and still be part of the free trade area. You would probably just have to do like Norway: have the EU rules (which you would no longer be able to influence) forced down your throat and pay billions upon billions to the French farmers every year

I'd just like to quote that so my confusewd little freud Park Avenue might be able to finally understand what I said.

[Solly]

How would French farmers extract billions out of us?

[Combat Ingrid]

You would have to pay EU a huge fee (from which a large part goes to the French farmers) to be allowed into the free trade area.

[Solly]

"You would have to pay EU a huge fee (from which a large part goes to the French farmers) to be allowed into the free trade area."



When they have more to gain from us being in it? What bollocks.

[Bereta_Eder]

They don't.

[Solly]

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
When they have more to gain from us being in it? What bollocks.

Do you seriously believe the French farmers would let you in unless you paid them generously? What bollocks.

[Bereta_Eder]

Rooneys.

[Solly]

"Do you seriously believe the French farmers would let you in unless you paid them generously?"



It's a free trade area. Therefore there's no need for transfers and stuff like that.