SCOTUS tells Newdow to piss off

[JohnT]

Originally posted by notyoueither


How about the ones that don't ditch them? What about the ones that are left or kicked out and the children are left to or taken by the other with the stamp of approval of, get this, other courts.

I'm not discussing other parents, I'm discussing this one. (Unless I'm reading your poorly-worded post incorrectly, that is.)

[notyoueither]

Read slowly. You'll work it out.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by notyoueither


What do you know about him that I do not?

I know that at one time he had a choice to make: to stay with his family or not. He chose not.

[notyoueither]

Bull****. You are admitting you know ****. Thank you for playing.

[JohnT]

[notyoueither]

[notyoueither]

Honestly, you think every divorced person wanted to be divorced? You think it's a life-style choice for everyone who gets divorced and loses access to their kids?

[Berzerker]

John T -

Oooh, he's got custody 10 days a month! Wow, that makes him a loving, caring father

You said he ran out on her, you are wrong. Sarcasm won't hide that fact...

... who can't be bothered with the other 20 days a month.

The courts set that up, not him. Why don't you throw some of your nastiness at the mother?

I'm not concerned with the "standing" - he has it and I'm not arguing that point. The issue here (to me) is motivation: if this guy was so concerned about his kids well-being, he'd be there for them. Period. Now we're presented with a "man" who doesn't think well enough of his own kids to stick around, but thinks well enough of them to lob lawsuits in their name?

So any time parents divorce or separate the spouse who doesn't get full or majority custody is running out on their kids? Real good, John.

NYE -

What do you know about him that I do not?

He knows the guy doesn't want the state pushing someone else's religion onto his kid, that makes him eeevil. Are you a Christian, John? How would you feel if the state was telling your kid to stand up in class and publicly affirm allegiance to Satan?

[Berzerker]

I know that at one time he had a choice to make: to stay with his family or not. He chose not.

And the mother wasn't involved in that "choice"? Unless you have proof the guy left her for another woman and she's an innocent bystander who wanted to stay together you're just pissing in the wind.

Mr Fun -

And no one has the right to be free from being offended.

That's true, but we do have a right to not have other people coerce our children to pledge allegiance to their god.

[Imran Siddiqui]

conservatives often complain about the coercive atmosphere on college campuses created by liberal students and teachers who may retaliate against conservative students for expressing their views

And very few of them (ie, the crazies) are saying we should ban those liberal students and teachers from speaking out about their beliefs. I was a conservative in a liberal school. It didn't bother me when liberal professors talked about their political beliefs in class. This idea that they may retaliate because they say these views in class was and is foolish. No one I've know who has refused to say the pledge was retaliated against, and it'd be even fewer for those who didn't say two words in the damned thing! Threat of retaliation for not saying two words when everyone else is mumbling every word and saying something that doesn't even resemble a pledge? Please!

[Imran Siddiqui]

That's true, but we do have a right to not have other people coerce our children to pledge allegiance to their god.

So would you be against the pledge in total? According to your view, it would be people coercing children to pledge allegiance to their country. I'm sure Anarchist or Communist parents would not approve. Is your disapproval with the entire pledge or just the two words?

[Berzerker]

Imran -

And very few of them (ie, the crazies) are saying we should ban those liberal students and teachers from speaking out about their beliefs.

And Newdow doesn't want to ban people from expressing their religious views, he just wants them to stop "asking" his daughter to pledge allegiance to their God.

I was a conservative in a liberal school. It didn't bother me when liberal professors talked about their political beliefs in class.

That isn't the issue, the analogy would for those teachers to "ask" you to pledge allegiance to their ideology and don't deny you'd think about the potential recriminations should you refuse - that's called coercion.

This idea that they may retaliate because they say these views in class was and is foolish.

Tell that to all the conservative students paraded onto conservative or Republican talk radio and TV shows to complain about how they were treated after expressing their "politically incorrect" views.

No one I've know who has refused to say the pledge was retaliated against, and it'd be even fewer for those who didn't say two words in the damned thing!

Okay, so next time we want to know what is happening to every student in the country we can just ask you for your personal experience. Do you know children who refused? How do you know they were never retaliated against? How do you know if they felt coerced? Geez Imran, you can't even admit the obvious! Small kids who don't recite the pledge, especially in the Bible Belt where atheists and non-Christians are really looked down upon by many people, are inviting potential trouble and they know it. That's why the pledge is coercive...

Threat of retaliation for not saying two words when everyone else is mumbling every word and saying something that doesn't even resemble a pledge? Please!

Then what's the point if children all across the country don't take it seriously? Not everyone is mumbling the words and not everyone thinks it's meaningless. There are many people who view it seriously, especially teachers and administrators. Do you think the football team and coach that prays before games are just mumbling? Do you think the player who refuses to participate in the coach's prayer has absolutely no expectation of any retaliation? Denial is not a river in Egypt...

[Berzerker]

So would you be against the pledge in total?

Yes.

According to your view, it would be people coercing children to pledge allegiance to their country. I'm sure Anarchist or Communist parents would not approve. Is your disapproval with the entire pledge or just the two words?

See above. The reason that Christian sect objected to the pledge in 1943 before "under God" was added was because their religion - Christianity (ironic huh?) - prohibited oath taking and idolatry (they viewed the flag as an idol).

[KrazyHorse]

I hate agreeing with Berzerker.

[Berzerker]

But you like being right.