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  • SCOTUS tells Newdow to piss off

    The latest installment in my long standing tradition of cut-and-paste crap posting. Take that, loinburger!

    Court dismisses Pledge case
    Atheist father cannot sue over use of 'Under God'

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court on Monday ruled that a California atheist could not challenge the words "one nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, sidestepping the broader question of separation of church and state.

    The ruling -- delivered on Flag Day -- means that the full pledge will continue to be recited in the nation's public schools.

    Five justices -- led by Justice John Paul Stevens -- said Michael Newdow, the father, did not have legal standing to bring the case. Newdow, who is involved in a custody dispute with the mother of their third-grade daughter, could not speak for the girl, the court ruled.

    Writing for the majority, Justice John Paul Stevens said, "When hard questions of domestic relations are sure to affect the outcome, a prudent course is for the federal court to stay its hand rather than reach out to resolve a weighty question of federal constitutional law."

    He added, "Newdow lacks prudential standing to bring this suit in federal court."

    Led by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, three other justices said that the pledge does not violate the First Amendment, which prohibits the establishment of religion by the government.

    At Newdow's request, Justice Antonin Scalia recused himself after he had made remarks in a speech critical of the case.

    Newdow, who has medical and legal degrees and argued his own case before the high-court justices in March, never married the mother of the child and the two are in a battle over his parental rights.

    The mother, Sandra Banning, has said she has no problem with her daughter reciting the full pledge and argued that Newdow had no right to bring the case.

    In his minority opinion, Rehnquist wrote, "To give the parent of such a child a sort of 'heckler's veto' over a patriotic ceremony willingly participated in by other students, simply because the Pledge of Allegiance contains the descriptive phrase 'under God,' is an unwarranted extension of the establishment clause, an extension which would have the unfortunate effect of prohibiting a commendable patriotic observance."

    Constitutional scholars have long debated whether the pledge serves as a prayer in addition to a patriotic oath.

    Newdow sued the Sacramento County, California, school district his daughter attended, claiming public recitation by students violated her religious liberty. While legal precedent makes reciting the pledge voluntary, Newdow said it becomes unconstitutional when students are forced to hear it.

    He argued that the teacher-led recitations carry the stamp of government approval. (March arguments before case)

    Newdow declared that his daughter would be singled out if she chose not to say the pledge, and would be coerced to participate. "Imagine you're a third-grader in a class of 30 kids. That's enormous pressure to put on a child" to conform, he said. "Government needs to stay out of the religion business altogether."

    The Bush administration opposed the ban, and Solicitor General Theodore Olson told the justices the pledge is simply a "ceremonial, patriotic exercise."

    In June 2002, the 9th Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals drew sharply divided public opinion when it banned the teacher-led pledge for the nearly 10 million schoolchildren in the nine Western states under its jurisdiction. In striking down the pledge, the judges ruled "the coercive effect of the policy here is particularly pronounced in the school setting given the age and impressionability of schoolchildren." (The 2002 ruling)

    But the ban was put on hold until the high court issues a final ruling.

    The pledge was written in 1892 by Baptist minister and educator Francis Bellamy, who made no reference to religion in his version. It was originally worded: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It quickly became a part of public school programs.

    In 1954, Congress added the words "under God," after pressure by the Knights of Columbus and other groups. Another modification was to change "my flag" to "the flag of the United States of America."

    The case is Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow (02-1624).

    Supreme Court Producer Bill Mears contributed to this report.




    Good on the Supreme Court. It's about time they shut that annoying heathen up.
    KH FOR OWNER!
    ASHER FOR CEO!!
    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

  • #2


    As a side note, we're watching a movie version of "Much Ado About Nothing" in English today

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    • #3
      Proper ruling was made here. I still have no idea how the lower courts thought Newdow had any standing.
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • #4
        Win on technicality is still a win.
        "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

        “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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        • #5
          So, now someone with standing will bring a suit. While technically correct, this was not a win, but a postponement.

          God don't belong in the pledge, which was written by a socialist, and thus presumably, an atheist.
          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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          • #6
            So, now someone with standing will bring a suit.


            We'll see. Since before this case you didn't have many 15 year olds petition the courts to get it removed, I wonder if it'll happen anytime soon.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • #7
              Well, most likely if someone threatens to bring suit, the school will simply excuse the child from saying the pledge instead. As for 15-year olds, I don't know many high schools that say the pledge.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment


              • #8
                the school will simply excuse the child from saying the pledge instead


                You are already allowed to be excused from saying the pledge.
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                  the school will simply excuse the child from saying the pledge instead


                  You are already allowed to be excused from saying the pledge.
                  Some schools won't let you and will discipline you if you don't. Either follow their instructions or go for a lengthy legal battle.
                  "Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"​​

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                  • #10
                    What Thorn said.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'd have loved it if I was a student in the US as a 15 year old. I'd have been straight to court to try to ban it. Religion has no place in public schools. I don't understand why you have laws against prayer in school, even volantarily, but force, or at the very least put a form of pressure (to conform) on students to recite a pledge with a religious message
                      Smile
                      For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                      But he would think of something

                      "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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                      • #12
                        Then go for a legal battle. Hell, you can make the same claim if, say, the SCOTUS says you can't say the pledge at all: Some schools will still make you. That is what the legal system is for, people!
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would, but not being in the US, I can't. We never had compulasory, or pressure to have religion where I went to school.
                          Smile
                          For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                          But he would think of something

                          "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would have liked to see an actual decision be made on this, rather than having it postponed due to a technicality.

                            Oh well, I can only hope this gets fixed at some point in the future.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              from article: "Newdow said it becomes unconstitutional when students are forced to hear it."



                              I did not know we have the right to be free from being offended.
                              A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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