Discussion on the Goblet of Fire, Severus Snape

[monolith94]

bump, because this is by far the coolest discussion on harry potter I've had in a while.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Second, the prophecy stated that Harry (or Neville if you want to believe that interpretation ) would be the one who'd stop Voldemort, so I don't think they needed Dumbledore to do anything.

It can't be Neville. The prophecy itself states that the One to face Voldemort will be chosen by him. By choosing Harryy, he made him the One.

I'm not entirely convinced that part of Voldemorts power was imprinted or transfered to Harry.

I thought it had been made clear Voldemort had transferred some of his powers to Harry, ie the ability to speak Parseltongue. Although Harry could have possessed this ability all along.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Guynemer
And, since DADA is the equivalent of the drummer of Spinal Tap, he won't survive the school year.

Lupin survived the school year. Or perhaps you mean, survive by staying on as a teacher.

[Guynemer]

Yes and no. I can't see any other reasonable explanation for him to stop being the DADA prof except his untimely demise.

Anyway, no thoughts on my Lestrange suggestion?

[SnowFire]

Guynmeyer: Voldemort mentions the Lestranges earlier in the quoted passage. They aren't part of the last 6 person gap.

It can't be Neville. The prophecy itself states that the One to face Voldemort will be chosen by him. By choosing Harryy, he made him the One.

That's what Dumbledore believes, yes, but Dumbledore has been wrong before (like not noticing that Moody was an imposter for an entire year!).

The problem is, we don't know what's going on with Neville. Neville has really terrible memory. We know that Memory Charms, especially when done too early or too strongly, can permenantly interfere with someone's memory (they mention this about Bertha Jorkins). It seems logical to guess that Neville had some kind of massive Memory Charm placed on him after some traumatic childhood event- but he remembers his parents' torture. So it must have been something else. What is it? Who knows.

I think it'd be neat if Neville is the one prophesized to defeat Voldemort, but it's impossible to say for sure either way yet. We need to know what happened to Neville that we don't know about.

[Verto]

The prophecy:

"The One with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies.... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."

Voldemort marked Harry as his equal by trying to kill him. The One was determined by Voldemort's choice. His fear of Harry Potter marked him as the One.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

[Solver]

Indeed, it's clear now that Harry is the one.

However, mind this - if Harry dies at the end of Book 7, it will mean that Voldemort would be undefeated. But in all honesty, that would make sense. As the prophecy stated, Harry and Voldemort, one of them must kill the other. And, after all, Voldemort is a much more powerful wizard with much larger expierence and understanding of magic. So if they were to duel proprely (no Prioti Incantatem, and no outer help for Harry, such as Dumbledore), it would only make sense if Voldemort won. I mean, he just has to invoke the Avada Kedavra spell again, and he's done.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I still don't buy it. Even the JK hasn't lied yet. If she wants you to keep guessing she just doesn't tell you.

But JK already told us in CoS that Harry got some of Voldemort's powers.

Luna is also a year younger than Harry.

I think that the Harry / Ginny connection would be a bit too easy in tersm of story. The relationship would lack interest and development, to me at least.

But Luna is... well, loony. It'd be terrible disappointing for Harry to end up with that space cadet. If he ends up with Ginny, he becomes part of the family. You could even have Ginny and Harry start going out, but before the get engaged or announce they are engaged, Harry gets killed in the final battle, along with Voldamort.

The prophecy:

"The One with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies.... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."

While I think it probably is Harry, this passage is NOT conclusive. The phrase says "The Dark Lord will mark him as his equal". WILL is the important phrase. How do we not know that Neville will be marked as an equal in the last two books? It'd be one Hell of a twist. Now I don't think Rowling will do it, but it's interesting that JK pointed out that Neville was also born in that same month. I think Neville has an important role in the end.

if Harry dies at the end of Book 7, it will mean that Voldemort would be undefeated.

Not really. Harry and Voldemort could BOTH die at the same time. Harry realizing that in order to defeat the Dark Lord, he has to sacrifice himself.

[Guynemer]

Ooops... forgot about that part of the passage.

I agree with you Imran; I think the way this is shaping up is that Harry will have to sacrifice his life in order to finish Voldemort. I only hope Rowling has enough guts to carry through with that.

I also think (apart from Dumbledore and Harry) Neville is the character most set-up to take a dirt nap by the end of the series. The whole "it could have been (and probably should have been) Neville" thing in the last book doesn't speak well for our favorite goofy little bastard.

[SnowFire]

Verto, Solver: Yes, that's Dumbledore's interpretation. But Dumbledore has been wrong before. We can't just take his word for it. For instance, the massive memory charm that Neville has on him (probably) could also be the Dark Lord's mark.

As for Harry possibly sacrificing himself, how's this? Neville is the chosen one, and he gets to die along with Voldemort. That way Harry lives, but there's still a noble sacrifice from the one you didn't expect it from.

But Luna is... well, loony. It'd be terrible disappointing for Harry to end up with that space cadet.

Luna is actually weirdly lucid. While I don't want to do what monolith threatened to do and start quoting various passages, there are two basic reasons why Luna/Harry is a reasonable idea.
#1), communal loss of a parent. Well, both in Harry's case. This is minor, but it helps the whole "connection" thing. Harry & Luna actually talk in OotP, and despite not knowing each other well, it's the really frank, open kind of talk you might see among old friends.

#2, the big one, Luna doesn't give a whit about Harry's fame. This is crucial- Harry's life has been determined by people raving about his reputation. Now, not saying that Rowling will follow the standard, but among good books where this has been an issue, the forced-fame person always goes for somebody who doesn't care / doesn't know about said fame. Why do you think princesses are always dressing up as peasant girls before going to the fair (plot-wise, not psychologically)? That way, if somebody they meet should they fall in love with them, they'll know it was "genuine" and not over fame/position.

Ginny's early infatuation was probably much caused by Harry's great fame. Not neccessarily the kiss of death, but with another option that has refused to have been "polluted..."

[monolith94]

"But Luna is... well, loony. It'd be terrible disappointing for Harry to end up with that space cadet."

You've fallen into the same trap that Neville and Ron did - you hear all the talk about how insane she is. We don't see her in the books do anything actually that weird, and many of the things she does that are weird seem to be self conscious. For example, the moment under the mistletoe, when she talks about the nargles. In my opinion, she recognizes all of what's going on in Harry's head there, and she's defusing the situation with that comment of hers. Plus, it's bloody hilarious. I agree with Snowfire - she's lucidly weird. Remember, she's a Ravenclaw - she can't be THAT dumb.

[Immortal Wombat]

Plus, pretty much every single love interest so far has been a Ravenclaw girl.

[Drake Tungsten]

this is by far the coolest discussion on harry potter I've had in a while.

You're welcome.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Luna is actually weirdly lucid.

Too wierd, however. She can be as lucid as you like, but she's still a loony and Harry knows it. As for communal loss of parent, you said it yourself, like "old friends'". Friends, not lovers. As for not caring about Harry's fame, I don't think that matters worth a lick. Luna, because of her parental situation, doesn't have that 'family' Harry desires. Furthermore, I don't think Rowling would announce Harry's BIG love interest so late in the series. Luna is just another character to get out Harry's thoughts about his dead parents. Hell, Harry pities her (you go out with people you pity?)! Ginny has been around since Book 2, however, so making her into a main character wouldn't be too bad; we already know a lot about her.

Harry will not end up with Luna. No way, no how (if Rowling does do it, I shall be very displeased). Ginny, however, if Harry survives Book 7, he'll be with her, no doubt.

[monolith94]

I still say that Ginny and Harry will never be together. Oh well. Time, and books 6 and 7, shall tell.