Rugby - Truck and Trailer!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar

A friend of mine saw it at the Cannes Festival and said it was sh*t.

An Australian obviously...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
We can find that out in a milder example of NZ press pieces

Mmm. He's toeing the party line. I don't suppose there's much else he could do.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


An Australian obviously...

I'll see it when it's released here. But I can't imagine why they'd want to remake a film that was - in its time - pretty much flawless. They're making some odd choices lately. "Intolerable Cruelty" was entertaining enough but, ultimately, not worthy of their talents, methinks.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Caligastia
The facial expression says it all...

My deepest condolences Havak old chap.
I wouldn't have wished it any other way of course.

*Hits Havak in the face with a humble pie*

Incidentally though this comment rather intrigued me

"When you have finished playing it is not great hanging around test matches. Maybe I'll just watch it on TV."

I'm surprised to such a thing from the great one - a minor case of the blues at not actually playing perhaps?
Do players often take a break from actually attending matches upon retiring?


One rather interesting point that came up on the news last night, which will undoubtably thrill finbar, is that soccer is now, apparently, Australia's largest sport - topping even the AFL.
I'm not entirely sure from whence this new-found enthusiasm cometh - what with the "Australian favourite" team in the EPL having been relegated at the end of last season.
Maybe every single Australian club is chipping in to try and jointly pick up Beckham's contract for a half-season on the off-chance he doesn't return to Spain.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
I'm surprised to such a thing from the great one - a minor case of the blues at not actually playing perhaps?
Do players often take a break from actually attending matches upon retiring?

More often than not, from what I understand. Some say they find it easier to deal with the withdrawl by not turning up, particularly not going into the rooms before and/or after the match. Some, who might go to matches, deliberately avoid going into the rooms on the basis that the last thing the players need is the distraction of a retiree looking over their shoulders.

Regardless, as Havak noted, J**** has to become involved somewhere backstage. It's difficult, politically, at the moment. He's freshly retired, the team has nose-dived, any involvement this soon might be taken as a slur on Clive. And I suspect that's a major reason why J**** isn't attending. It was always patently obvious that J**** was instrumental in the team's success, probably more so than Clive. Methinks J**** is diplomatically treading lightly.

One rather interesting point that came up on the news last night, which will undoubtably thrill finbar, is that soccer is now, apparently, Australia's largest sport - topping even the AFL.
I'm not entirely sure from whence this new-found enthusiasm cometh - what with the "Australian favourite" team in the EPL having been relegated at the end of last season.

S***** has always had a big following here and a huge grassroots set up. It has always been hamstrung - sabotaged even - on the organisational side, from within, by various individual, would-be powermongers determined to protect the administrative fifedoms they've spent years developing. Look at the sh*tfight that went on prior to Frank Lowy being installed as the new supremo. And those would-be powermongers haven't gone away. They're waiting in the wings for the new set up to err. They'll be back. And s***** will remain the administrative basketcase it always has been.

[Havak]

Thanks very much, said Wendell, catching the ball and strolling away for a try.

It was funny. It’s exactly the type of thing that lets Wendell flatter to deceive?

The Maori might be largely NPCers, but there's a vague chance they're probably young and even quicker and more skilful than the fur seals!

I have watched the fur half – the seals were mainly sevens players and successfully drew England A into that type of game at times so that the English pack wasn’t having the influence it should. When England kept it tight and controlled for multiple phases they looked totally in charge.

The Maori are not to be taken lightly.

It must be tough flying 1st class...

His wife is a Kiwi – I bet they booked economy and got a free upgrade when they saw who he was?

Do players often take a break from actually attending matches upon retiring?

Martin has always said he finds it hard watching the game as he wants to be on the pitch. It’s a consistent comment from the man.

And I’m not sure the fact you pointed out was instrumental to Clive at the very least Finbar.

Well he has tinkered with the selection – six changes in all. But you know what – he still got it wrong!

On the plus side lardy Thommo the line out liability is dropped totally – as is Chris Jones who got pummelled (quite literally) by that feisty second row (nice to see the Kiwis play a lad inspired by Jonno?). And the Aussie makes the bench. The downside is that Regan and Worseley play. Still no place for Corry or Ellis. Hill still at openside. Borthwick starting. Sheesh. Talk about humble pie for me Ravagon – Sir Clive is in a tailspin and cannot get out!

The full squad can be seen here – and frankly Clive deserves what is going to happen this weekend.

England: J Lewsey (Wasps); T Voyce (Wasps), M Tindall (Bath), S Abbott (Wasps), B Cohen (Northampton); C Hodgson (Sale), A Gomarsall (Gloucester); T Woodman (Sale Sharks), M Regan (Leeds), J White (Leicester), S Shaw (Wasps), S Borthwick (Bath), J Worsley (Wasps), R Hill (Saracens), L Dallaglio (Wasps, capt).
Replacements: A Titterell (Sale Sharks), M Stevens (Bath), D Grewcock (Bath), M Lipman (Bath), M Dawson (Northampton), O Barkley (Bath), F Waters (Wasps).

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


It was funny. It’s exactly the type of thing that lets Wendell flatter to deceive?

Yep. He actually worked hard during the game, made some contributions. Mortlock and Gerard are both fit for this week, apparently. The media has it that Mortlock will return, for Rathbone. And Gerard will miss out. Meaning Wendell will hold his spot. I damn well hope not. Rathbone had a terrific match and has to stay. Wendell has to go. Mortlock to outside centre, Rathbone to Wendell's spot on the wing. I'm not sure how Gerard fits in. Probably on the bench in place of Burke.

The Maori are not to be taken lightly.

Watch for the Maori to successfully draw the England team into a 7s game!

England: J Lewsey (Wasps); T Voyce (Wasps), M Tindall (Bath), S Abbott (Wasps), B Cohen (Northampton); C Hodgson (Sale), A Gomarsall (Gloucester); T Woodman (Sale Sharks), M Regan (Leeds), J White (Leicester), S Shaw (Wasps), S Borthwick (Bath), J Worsley (Wasps), R Hill (Saracens), L Dallaglio (Wasps, capt).
Replacements: A Titterell (Sale Sharks), M Stevens (Bath), D Grewcock (Bath), M Lipman (Bath), M Dawson (Northampton), O Barkley (Bath), F Waters (Wasps).

So who's the new hooker? Can Voyce tackle? Will Cohen contribute anything other than a gobful to the ref and a penalty turned around? And surely he - Cohen - is living on borrowed time? He did nothing in the World Cup and presumably not a lot since.

EDIT. I notice Howlett is out this weekend and McCaw is doubtful. That will help you. Also interesting to see Mehrtens on the bench. No other option, I suppose, with Evans coming into the team at full back.

Oh, and I've never read so much mumbo jumbo in my life.

[Havak]

Was that a link to Zinzans article? It didn't work for me...

[finbar]

Mmm. Doesn't work for me now either. Yes, it was Zinzan's mindless jottings. Obviously the webmaster read it and decided to take it down to preserve the site's last vestiges of credibility.

[Havak]

Perhaps the most notable thing about that article is how Zinzan, the man with his finger on the pulse of rugby, said Clive should have taken a natural openside like Neil Back (retired) or Lewis Moody (injured). Clive can only take what is available Zinny. He took that Aussie holidaymaker – perhaps the other options were Andy Hazell (in Canada) or Paul Volley (moving to a French club this summer).

I am sorry Clive treated Backy so badly after the RWC – but amused it came back to bite him last weekend. At 35 Backy can certainly still live with McCaw – Richard Hill couldn’t if he were still 18.

Watched the second half of the Canuck game yesterday. It’s an unusual team the fur seals are building – there is real pace there and they run some very good lines. Defensive patterns need working on though – simply by holding ball and building phases England were able to create gaps as the Canucks committed too many bodies to the breakdowns.

My favourite quotes came from the Canadian TV interviews post match where the reporter described England as “the best CLUB in the world” and Gareth Rees, talking after a 48-23 defeat, claimed that Canada had made very good players look average. So presumably if we had topped 50 we would have been above average? Still he used to play for Wasps so one can expect a little arrogance.

Wendell has to go.

Has Eddie named the team?

Watch for the Maori to successfully draw the England team into a 7s game!

Mallinder and Diamond will be working hard this week to prevent that happening again. Interestingly the backline options in Canada has real pace – Horak, Scarborough, Cueto, Noon. Some of them should be down south perhaps. The forwards are where the game could be won though – they were rusty as a unit against the Canucks but even so Deacon stole plenty of opposition line out ball. He really is starting to look like a future Senior squad fixture.

So who's the new hooker? Can Voyce tackle?

The hooker is Mark Regan (Leeds, formerly of Bath) who has a suspect temperament and whom I do not rate very highly at all – I’d have liked him to play the 23-year-old Titterall instead. Voyce is a better tackler than Simpson-Daniel – but no heavyweight even so. Yes Cohen is living dangerously. He scored an absolutely beautiful try in Paris that was vintage Cohen – pace, power and a lovely hand off – but it’s all he has done this year. He has developed a tendency to drift into the centre channels, which doesn’t suit his strengths – he doesn’t have the best hands in rugby after all. To be honest I think being dropped will be beneficial to help him re-focus on what he really needs to do in an England shirt.

I notice Howlett is out this weekend and McCaw is doubtful

Excellent. We need all the help we can get.

The Maori game is 1am Sunday morning – that means watching through an alcoholic filter!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Perhaps the most notable thing about that article is how Zinzan, the man with his finger on the pulse of rugby, said Clive should have taken a natural openside like Neil Back (retired) or Lewis Moody (injured). Clive can only take what is available Zinny. He took that Aussie holidaymaker – perhaps the other options were Andy Hazell (in Canada) or Paul Volley (moving to a French club this summer).

Zinzan is a f*ckwit in print as he proved prior to and during the World Cup. On top of him forgetting Moody and Back weren't available, he surmised that J**** was worth 5 points to England. Five? He contradicts himself through the article, makes unsustainable statements - if he weren't one of the great #8s, I'd really pay out on the d*ckhead!

Watched the second half of the Canuck game yesterday. It’s an unusual team the fur seals are building – there is real pace there and they run some very good lines. Defensive patterns need working on though – simply by holding ball and building phases England were able to create gaps as the Canucks committed too many bodies to the breakdowns.

Sounds like the American approach - run like buggery. And that England approach is what usually sinks the Eagles too.

My favourite quotes came from the Canadian TV interviews post match where the reporter described England as “the best CLUB in the world”

Someone tell him it's now New Zealand acording to the blessed rankings.

Has Eddie named the team?

As expected, Mortlock for Rathbone, who goes to the bench. Which I think is a real shame. Waugh swaps bench spots with George Smith. Probably predictable. So Wendell's still there and young Mark Gerard misses out!

Mallinder and Diamond will be working hard this week to prevent that happening again. Interestingly the backline options in Canada has real pace – Horak, Scarborough, Cueto, Noon. Some of them should be down south perhaps. The forwards are where the game could be won though – they were rusty as a unit against the Canucks but even so Deacon stole plenty of opposition line out ball. He really is starting to look like a future Senior squad fixture.

Hindsight is easy, but Clive should have had the guts and foresight to bring some of those players. As it is now, having played the "best available", he looks stupid with no excuse. Which, of course, pains me immensely.

The hooker is Mark Regan (Leeds, formerly of Bath) who has a suspect temperament and whom I do not rate very highly at all – I’d have liked him to play the 23-year-old Titterall instead.

Suspect temperament? There will be a queue to try him out.

Voyce is a better tackler than Simpson-Daniel – but no heavyweight even so.

Apart from tackling, he's going to have to think quickly too. Read the play better than S-D did. S-D looked surprised when Rokococo came charging. I'm not sure why. It's all Rokococo ever does.

Yes Cohen is living dangerously. He scored an absolutely beautiful try in Paris that was vintage Cohen – pace, power and a lovely hand off – but it’s all he has done this year. He has developed a tendency to drift into the centre channels, which doesn’t suit his strengths – he doesn’t have the best hands in rugby after all. To be honest I think being dropped will be beneficial to help him re-focus on what he really needs to do in an England shirt.

I have to say, I have never been a huge fan, but then I've never seen him do great things. I'm sure he has at some stage in his career. He's always struck me as a fairly one-dimensional burly - albeit quick-ish - lump of a winger.

The Maori game is 1am Sunday morning – that means watching through an alcoholic filter!

Goodoh. Bear in mind that alcohol affects colour perception. The team not wearing white is England. Barrack for the team not wearing white.

[Havak]

Well I thought if I criticised his estimate of Jonno’s points value you might think I was biased or something?

And that England approach is what usually sinks the Eagles too.

Maoris-Eagles was like watching Super 12 – both sides just ran like buggery at each other. The main difference was the Maoris ran through the yanks a few times.

Someone tell him it's now New Zealand according to the blessed rankings.

Meaningless things those rankings. After all NZ were lucky last weekend – and will be lucky this coming weekend, and will be lucky when they Slam the tri-nations again. Always said they were over-rated.

(Kiwis please read that carefully so as not to miss the treacle heavy irony).

So Wendell's still there and young Mark Gerard misses out!

You called this one well. I hear the Scots line out worked pretty well last week – but Murray is crocked and Grimes under the disciplinary threat so their one strength may disappear this weekend. I suppose they could get your lads drunk the night before on a fine Islay malt?

Which, of course, pains me immensely.

I bet it does.

I would not be surprised if, after two more losses on this tour, he walks away from the job.

Suspect temperament? There will be a queue to try him out.

Might work for us. Kaplan should probably have dismissed that feisty Kiwi lock last weekend anyway – so if he can be tempted to punch Regan in front of the ref I’d be happy twice over!

S-D looked surprised when Rokococo came charging. I'm not sure why. It's all Rokococo ever does.

Yes. What can I say? Gloucester player.

He's always struck me as a fairly one-dimensional burly - albeit quick-ish - lump of a winger.

He hit superb form in the November 2002 internationals actually, and was solid in the Slam campaign of 2003. He has phoned in performances ever since really.

The team not wearing white is England

How much do you think I am expecting to drink?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Well I thought if I criticised his estimate of Jonno’s points value you might think I was biased or something?

The problem is - England's problem is - that his value is (was) inestimable. I'm just waiting for the first Englishman in any position of authority to come out and actually say it. By which I mean, admit they're rooted without him until they find an equivalent. Maybe it will happen after Clives goes. To save him the ignominy.

(Kiwis please read that carefully so as not to miss the treacle heavy irony).

Have nothing of it, Kiwis. Last weekend's thumping has brought the nasty side.

You called this one well. I hear the Scots line out worked pretty well last week – but Murray is crocked and Grimes under the disciplinary threat so their one strength may disappear this weekend. I suppose they could get your lads drunk the night before on a fine Islay malt?

It's ridiculous. Why drop Rathbone at this stage? In front of Wendell? Wendell is obviously being given every possible chance. Hopefully he'll do a hammie. Grimes copped two weeks so he's gone. Don't know about Murray. Yes, they've lost their only real strength from last week - apart from their courage and commitment.

I would not be surprised if, after two more losses on this tour, he walks away from the job.

Quit a loser? How could he show his face? I wish I could summon sympathy for him. Well, I don't actually.

Might work for us. Kaplan should probably have dismissed that feisty Kiwi lock last weekend anyway – so if he can be tempted to punch Regan in front of the ref I’d be happy twice over!

They're too cunning for that. They'll bait him and niggle him and - hopefully - he'll explode and cop a red card.

He hit superb form in the November 2002 internationals actually, and was solid in the Slam campaign of 2003. He has phoned in performances ever since really.

He obviously needs to stay on the wing with a working unit inside him to service him. Which makes him a bit one-dimensional. Like Wendell. At least Tuquiri, because he has such beautiful hands, and a step, can come off the wing and generate things.

How much do you think I am expecting to drink?

As Rodney says, "Lips, do not unpurse".

[Havak]

Maybe it will happen after Clives goes. To save him the ignominy.

What national side has ever acknowledged such reliance on one player when they retire?

Clive’s genius will turn things around (note irony button still fully switched on here).

Have nothing of it, Kiwis. Last weekend's thumping has brought the nasty side.

No if I was feeling nasty I would constantly use the RWC, and who won it, as a blunt instrument.

Yes, they've lost their only real strength from last week - apart from their courage and commitment.

And that will not be enough. If you want a decent game from them phone Clive and ask if you can borrow 22 England shirts – that will get them going nicely.

It’s clear the ARU is not prepared to give up on the investment in Sailor just yet. It may be he does well against the Scots again – and probably us – but when he comes up against the ABs and they are punting the ball in space behind him it could be fun.

I wish I could summon sympathy for him. Well, I don't actually.

They'll bait him and niggle him and - hopefully - he'll explode and cop a red card.

It’s quite possible. He is a grade A doofus when provoked.

He obviously needs to stay on the wing with a working unit inside him to service him.

Probably right. His ‘ray of light’ is that the future England combo inside him is likely to be Bang-bang Tindall and Ollie Smith. Smith has good hands. As I have said many time how England are missing him down south right now!

How about the return Ireland-Boks game? Tough one to call for me. And Wales-Argentina – I’m a Puma fan there naturally. Ones things for sure another weekend of SH Whitewashes will undo much of the good work of the last four years - and risk allowing Kiwis to drift into another comfort zone of confident believed pre-eminence maybe? Perhaps?

And where are France when the home nations are putting it on the line at the end of a long season? Still settling their own domestic matters it seems. We needed France to be taking on the Boks or Wallabies right now…

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
And where are France when the home nations are putting it on the line at the end of a long season? Still settling their own domestic matters it seems. We needed France to be taking on the Boks or Wallabies right now…

Yes, we are still struggling with our domestic Championship now. We will gladly keep the flame of the Northern Hemisphere... provided the current holder does not let it fade away.