What percentage of Americans are poor?

[Al B. Sure!]

Pax:

When I was growing up I did'nt see many people make it out of the ghetto.

from the wording of this, can it be assuemd that you did live in the ghetto and you therefore, emerged from it. if so, you are enough proff that people rise out of the ghetto (which isnt real poverty to begin with). you were motivated and succeeded i'm assuming...

as for rap music... bah... there is an over-emphasis on drug dealing but not on drug using... thats the difference between rappers and rockers... rappers sell drugs, rockers use them.

i'd much rather have someone be a drug dealer than an addict cause at least a dealer is trying to succeed albeit through the wrong means. he has the goal of making money and frankly, selling drugs takes intelligence.

I am bothered by some people though. some of the smartest people I know, whom i have intellectual conversations with, play gangster. their playing gets pretty real though as they sell drugs and tote weapons all the time and end up living in shelters. i am sure the gangster culture that a lot of rap promotes has made playing gangster cool. that is bothersome.

still, as your own signature shows, there are very popular, non-gangster rappers out there... in the past couple years, the talib kweli/common/jurassic 5/kanye west kind of nerd rapper, if you will, has become extremely popular... and then you got the schizophrenic, 2pac-like gangster rappers like Beanie Sigel and Freeway who bemoan how they hustle from the bottom just to make it to the bottom. but this is all another topic.

[Arrian]

Trip - I really hope you realize that Saint Marcus was being sarcastic. What are you doing in OT, anyway? Is this the manifestation of extreme boredom + free time?

-Arrian

[DanS]

The thing about poverty in the U.S. is that the absolute numbers of impoverished seem shocking, even though the percentage is low. A 12% poverty rate is about 35 million people, after all. You don't have to go far in the US to find those 35 million people, either.

[chequita guevara]

Different goups have different rates, too.

From my poverty class a decade ago, 52% of those in poverty are white. That's about 9% of white people. About 33% of Black people, however, live under the poverty level. Now, these are ten-year old figures, but I doubt they've changed significantly since.

[Al B. Sure!]

poverty class?

once again, a leftist shows his white tower intellectualism...

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Arrian
Trip - I really hope you realize that Saint Marcus was being sarcastic. What are you doing in OT, anyway? Is this the manifestation of extreme boredom + free time?

-Arrian

Troll or not, some people believe that.

I do wander by the OT from time to time and post in topics that interest me (which don't come around very often though ).

[Jon Shafer]

Albert Speer:

What you're saying confuses me, since you're basically saying that blacks are inferior to whites...

If everyone has an equal opportunity to rise out of their situation then why is it that more black people end up in gangs, committing crimes, going to jail, etc?

As I said a long long time ago, if it's solely up to the person to rise out of their situation then you should see an equal proportion of each race in the ultra-wealthy, an equal number in the "middle class" and an equal number in poverty. But that's not the case. Which means according to your argument those who don't fit that mold (blacks, Mexicans, etc.) are somehow inferior.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
poverty class?

once again, a leftist shows his white tower intellectualism...

Yes, the Economics of Poverty, taught by a right-leaning professor. You'd be surprised at the things you can actually learn in school. Things that most people wouldn't figure out by goin' to hip hop shows or watching tv.

* The majority of people under the poverty limit are white.
* The majority are in two parent families.
* Only about 13% of those on welfare were eligible to work (weren't disabled, sole care provider for children, etc.).

But go ahead and continue your anti-intellectualism. You're in good company with the KKK and other American Know-Nothingists.

[Arrian]

Trip, I'm just trying to help, man. You don't seem to know what you've wandered into. Have you encountered Herr Speer before? I don't think so, because if you had you wouldn't be confused, you would be chuckling (or sobbing in despair, or just having no reaction whatsoever, whichever floats your boat).

-Arrian

[Al B. Sure!]

Trip:

What you're saying confuses me, since you're basically saying that blacks are inferior to whites...

you must be fulfilling your name and tripping

If everyone has an equal opportunity to rise out of their situation then why is it that more black people end up in gangs, committing crimes, going to jail, etc?

let's play jackass and i'll call you racist for saying black people end up in gangs, etc.

but i wont... i didnt say anything about equal oppurtunity between classes. i did repeatedly say that it is tougher for you to be born poor than be born rich but, as the existentialists would say, your existance preceeds your essence... you determine your own destiny.

yes it's harder for someone who was born into a poor family than somone the child of a CEO but the poor man can still succeed. he may have to work harder but oppurtunity exists, especially with organizations like Amer-I-Can helping people out and there being public schools and college scholarships.

the arguement that someone born into poverty will refuse to succeed is also bull**** as, in fact, i contend that someone born into poverty will have much more reason to, and be more motivated to, succeed than someone richer.

As I said a long long time ago, if it's solely up to the person to rise out of their situation then you should see an equal proportion of each race in the ultra-wealthy, an equal number in the "middle class" and an equal number in poverty. But that's not the case. Which means according to your argument those who don't fit that mold (blacks, Mexicans, etc.) are somehow inferior.

huh? perchance mexican immigrants coming here dirt poor and black people having been enslaved has something to do with this...


chegitz, i'm sure, what with your education, you are well versed in the Russian revolution... forgive me if i am wrong, but didn't the masses become quite disillusioned with the intellectual bolshevik leadership and began revolting against it (the 1921 Kronshtadt revolt)? as an intellectual, aren't you the enemy of the proletariat?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
chegitz, i'm sure, what with your education, you are well versed in the Russian revolution... forgive me if i am wrong, but didn't the masses become quite disillusioned with the intellectual bolshevik leadership and began revolting against it (the 1921 Kronshtadt revolt)? as an intellectual, aren't you the enemy of the proletariat?

Nice try, but I'm not going to engage in a thread-jack. If you're truly interested, look-up Kronstadt, by Paul Averitch, an anarchist and no friend to the Bolsheviks. The situation was actually a lot more complex than what you'd like to pretend.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Arrian
Trip, I'm just trying to help, man. You don't seem to know what you've wandered into. Have you encountered Herr Speer before? I don't think so, because if you had you wouldn't be confused, you would be chuckling (or sobbing in despair, or just having no reaction whatsoever, whichever floats your boat).

-Arrian

I've been watching the OT for the past couple years, trust me, I know all the personalities.

[chequita guevara]

A lurker?

[Arrian]

Active as all hell in the CivIII forums, which is how I know him, but apparently an OT lurker.

Anyway, now that I know he was just playing dumb, I'll leave him be to have his kicks.

-Arrian

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
but i wont... i didnt say anything about equal oppurtunity between classes. i did repeatedly say that it is tougher for you to be born poor than be born rich but, as the existentialists would say, your existance preceeds your essence... you determine your own destiny.

yes it's harder for someone who was born into a poor family than somone the child of a CEO but the poor man can still succeed. he may have to work harder but oppurtunity exists, especially with organizations like Amer-I-Can helping people out and there being public schools and college scholarships.

the arguement that someone born into poverty will refuse to succeed is also bull**** as, in fact, i contend that someone born into poverty will have much more reason to, and be more motivated to, succeed than someone richer.

So you don't think that children of people who are poorer are conditioned to seek less in life than those who have successful and wealthy parents? You don't think that there's any impact of having a mother who's a doctor and a father who's a lawyer pushing you to succeed as opposed to a single mother heroin addict?

It's proven that trauma of many sorts can affect a child growing up, making them depressed and suffer from a variety of mental illnesses. You don't think that this might have an effect on a child's goals growing up? Being conditioned not to care, not to think that school matters, not to think that they have a chance at college. It's a psychological illness, not a condition of lazy people.

Children need guidance to go down the correct path in life. They won't find it on their own, and when they're surrounded by bad influences such as drugs, gangs, etc. that helps shape them as they grow up.

Yes, if someone could possibly completely ignore all of that then they would have an equal "motivation factor." But the fact is that a child's upbrining will affect them for life, be it a good one or a bad one or anything in between.

huh? perchance mexican immigrants coming here dirt poor and black people having been enslaved has something to do with this...

But there's public education and college scholarships and Amer-I-Can, remember? The motivated (who should completely ignore the abysmal upbringing they have) ought to be able to become CEOs and computer engineers like everyone else, slavery or no slavery! Right?

You have to admit one way or the other - either a person's upbringing and original conditions have an impact on their potential success in life or it doesn't. You can't simply add in arguments like poor immigrants or slavery because you immediately concede that the situation does have an impact.