Maybe I'm Missing Something... Corporate raises?

[Aeson]

Why? Because you don't get the same amount of money?

I don't want the same amount of money. I'd like it if people realized that everyone is valuable, and that there is enough to go around. I don't expect it to happen.

Anyways, what I want from life for myself has nothing to do with money.

Why should we care that those people who we've decided are worth that much money bothers you?

Not asking anyone to care about my opinion. I express my opinion, just as everyone has a right to do. You can care about it, or argue with me about it, if you want.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But even though you assert your opinion you want others to agree with your position, right? So why do think we should?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

When people keep more than they or their families need, or can use without being decadent, that's what bothers me.

Why? Because you don't get the same amount of money? Why should we care that those people who we've decided are worth that much money bothers you? They make millions a year.... more power to 'em.

Because I'm spiteful and want a bigger piece of the pie for the average Joe.

[Ming]

Yeah... yes limit what people can make...

It's the classic argument... poor socialists wanting a bigger piece of the pie then they can earn for themselves... Thank god I live in a capitlistic society when I can work hard and get paid for it... And before you say that some people work hard and don't get paid, who's fault is that. Usually it's because the person wanted to do the job they are doing, or didn't get the education needed to get a better job, or were just too damn lazy...

[Sava]

Yeah... yes limit what people can make...

that's not what I said at all, and never have I proposed this.

poor socialists wanting a bigger piece of the pie then they can earn for themselves...

actually, my family would probably be in the top 5% of income earners in America... and I'm not much of a socialist. I just believe in bringing fairness to capitalism. It's a shame you cherish inequity and disparity.

[JohnT]

It's a shame you cherish inequity and disparity.

Sava, can't you post anything without resorting to insults and cheap shots?

[Sava]

I countered Ming putting words in my mouth by putting words in his mouth... sucks doesn't it? Ming's a big boy JohnT, you don't need to fight his battles.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Sava
I just believe in bringing fairness to capitalism. It's a shame you cherish inequity and disparity.

I give to charity, and my taxes go to a welfair system that doesn't work and is inefficient (I'm all for a welfair system... but I'm for one that actually works) I also volunteer my time to charity causes... do you?

So as usual... your lame attempts at an insult are just that... LAME

I believe people should be free to earn what they can. Which to me, is VERY FAIR. People keep pointing to a few bad eggs and using them to trash everybody. No matter what profession, you will find self serving jerks.
Even in supposedly socialistic system, you find greedy bastards who abuse the system. Yeah, some CEO's should be locked up and fined every cent they owe... but that's no reason to begrudge somebody else who owns a company or is a CEO from making what they can.

[Sava]

So as usual... your lame attempts at an insult are just that... LAME

actually, I wasn't trying to insult... I was putting words in your mouth just like you put words in my mouth.

I believe people should be free to earn what they can. Which to me, is VERY FAIR. People keep pointing to a few bad eggs and using them to trash everybody. No matter what profession, you will find self serving jerks.
Even in supposedly socialistic system, you find greedy bastards who abuse the system. Yeah, some CEO's should be locked up and fined every cent they owe... but that's no reason to begrudge somebody else who owns a company or is a CEO from making what they can.

wow you and I totally agree.

But my point is that not all the scumbags are being punished. Our Justice Department, led by Ashcroft, investigates more abortion doctors than corporate criminals. And how many convictions do we get? One or two? Corporate crime and corruption costs BILLIONS of your and my tax dollars. But I see a lack of outrage which is the focus of my disdain.

And please don't lump me in with the commies and others on this board. I have my own unique opinions. If you are going to present an argument, I ask you quote me and not present me with a debate of someone else's opinions or points.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Sava
I have my own unique opinions.

See, we agree on more than you thought

My first comments in my last post were specifically for you... the other comments were directed toward the thread in general...

As for my earlier comment on some people wanting to limit what people can earn, that was directed at everybody who was whining about people that make too much money... people should be able to make whatever they can... as long as it's legal.

And I still hope all of those corrupt CEO's bite the dust.
I have no problem with people making money, I do have problems with criminals

[Sava]

My first comments in my last post were specifically for you... the other comments were directed toward the thread in general...

but that's no reason to begrudge somebody else who owns a company or is a CEO from making what they can

I just think it's unfair that CEO's make like 400 times the average worker (which is above and beyond a historical record). But that doesn't mean I'd use the government to limit their pay or something. It's just something I perceive as "sucking".

In terms of this discussion, there are many CEO's that probably manipulate the system and companies to get pay they probably didn't earn. But that's just food for thought. I can't name specific people. It's just my perception of things. Perhaps its a misconception; I'm certainly not above such things.

I'd rather use government to encourage small business growth.

My grandfather told me about how things were for him in Italy after WW2. He was a shoemaker. The government set him up with a shop, and helped him start his business. He then paid a higher amount of tax than normal (it was part of a program) for a few years for this. Now that sounds fair. The government in Italy provided opprotunity and my grandfather paid his own way. He was abled to afford enough to move into West Germany with his family, and later came to the United States in 1958.

But I don't see that in America. I see billions in subsidies and pork barrel spending being given to corporate fatcats. I see corporate criminals running rampant and costing us billions. I see average Americans stagnating while corporate profits skyrocket. That seems wrong to me.

[JohnT]

Well, damn Sava. No government gave me subsidies to set up/take over my businesses. Does this mean I'm entitled to a lower tax rate than your GF in Italy?

[Sava]

Originally posted by JohnT
Well, damn Sava. No government gave me subsidies to set up/take over my businesses. Does this mean I'm entitled to a lower tax rate than your GF in Italy?

I would like to see similar programs in the United States that allow small businesses to grow and prosper. The larger corporations should be taxed more because they can afford to be taxed more... progressive taxation. That doesn't mean punitive taxation. I think by and large, the federal government has more than enough money to do things. I want to see a more efficient government. That means cutting out pork and large corporation subsidation. That means accountability for pie in the sky defense spending.

And you know what? If government programs can help Americans build wealth, everyone will be better off. We wouldn't even need public health care or social security for the most part. The problem is, we can't get the political establishment to stop playing pork politics. And this is for both parties. There's too much divisive partisan politics and their is too much abuse of government resources and power. But that's just my humbled opinion.

[Sava]

one more thing... I think the Democrats and Republicans are playing the American public. They divide us with social issues and keep us divided so that we can't have accountibility in goverment. The re-election rate of incumbents in the federal government is high... IIRC like 75% or more.

Republicans play their base against the Democrats, and Democrats play their base against the Republicans. And who ends up losing? The rest of America that doesn't have a real voice in American politics.

[Imran Siddiqui]

one more thing...

Just one?