Maybe I'm Missing Something... Corporate raises?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by JohnT
It's stunning, the lack of threads protesting George Lucas and his $400million in earnings in FY 2000, his $250million in FY 2001, his $200million in earnings for FY 2002, and his $185million in FY 2003, isn't it? If my math is correct, that gives him $1,035,000,000 in earnings in the past four years.

And Albert is concerned because some CEO is making $4million?

Red herring.

Besides, you are comparing top tier income of one group to average income of another group.

Two fallacies in one post.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Personally, I'd like to see a system where more people can work for themselves.

They can... the vast majority of businesses in the US are sole propriatorships.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ming
The idea of business is to make money, and that means laying off people and hiring people as the market dictates.

That's not the point. The point is a lot ot senior managment teams profit at the expense of everybody else.

[Q Classic]

personally, i find this offensive. then again, most corp types are amoral, so i wouldn't expect them to actually use some of their salary to benefit the company.

the few that stand out in my mind for doing this were iacocca (chrysler, 80's) and jobs (apple, 90's) who both took minimal compensation while their companies were tanked. iacocca took $1, while jobs i believe took nothing.

executive compensation should be directly proprtional to the company's performance. the ceo should not be able to walk away with so many million dollars while the company files for chapter 11 and tosses its workers to the side.

as far as other groups paid far too much for what they do: athletes, actors.

[Ming]

It seems that people are looking at a limited number of examples, and painting all CEO's as worthless pond scum.

Yeah... some are... But most are honest businessman doing their jobs. Yeah some companies, Enron and others participated in major fraud, and should be held accountable, that doesn't mean that every company acts in a similar fashion.

[Q Classic]

i understand most are honest businessmen. i personally, however, would like to see more of them take the step of making their company their livelihood by tying their financial fate to the fate of their company.

there is more incentive then to make sure it performs than there otherwise would be.

one would also weed out those who are too flaky or not equipped to be a good executive.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by JohnT
It isn't the amount of money that these people make that bothers the Left, its the "type" of person who makes it that bothers them.

No, it's how the money is made. Celebs, by and large, make money off something they personally made or did. Anyway, corporate salaries aren't the be ll and end all of CEO compensation. Most of their wealth is generated in stock gifts and the like.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ming
It seems that people are looking at a limited number of examples, and painting all CEO's as worthless pond scum.

Yeah... some are... But most are honest businessman doing their jobs.

And looking for their interest, like anybody does in a capitalist system. Is it any surprise that unaccountable people, who decide of their salaries, raise their salaries? Well, it doesn't surprise me. I don't even think they are evil to do so. I happen to think, however, that they need to be held accountable, so that it is not possible for them to (rationally) abuse their power.

There is scum among execs, but they aren't all scum. However, save for a few business-monks, they are self serving and look for their interests first. Hence the importance of making them accountable.[/QUOTE]

[Ming]

Most CEO compensation surveys include stock options and the like

[debeest]

Originally posted by Ming
Hmmm... compared to the top sports and movie stars, they make less money

Duh. Compared to the TOP sports and movie stars, the AVERAGE CEO makes a little less.

Compared to the hundreds of millions that a TOP CEO makes, the AVERAGE sports and movie star makes zilch.

Don't be dumb, Ming.

[debeest]

Originally posted by Ming
It seems that people are looking at a limited number of examples, and painting all CEO's as worthless pond scum.

Yeah... some are... But most are honest businessman doing their jobs. Yeah some companies, Enron and others participated in major fraud, and should be held accountable, that doesn't mean that every company acts in a similar fashion.

The AVERAGE CEO's pay has jumped dramatically over a fairly long period now, while the average worker's pay has been pretty stagnant.

Do you have any reason to think that CEOs are doing a vastly better job now and are far more important to the success of their corporations than they used to be, while the workers are no better and no more important than they used to be?

[Ming]

Originally posted by debeest
Compared to the hundreds of millions that a TOP CEO makes, the AVERAGE sports and movie star makes zilch.

Don't be dumb, Ming.

Let's see... you want to compare the top CEO to an average Sports figure... and you think I'm dumb

What's the point of that comparison. You have to make fair comparisons if you want to actually prove something

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It would be a more accurate comparison if the sportsman in question was able to choose his own rate of pay that need not bear any resemblance to his performance.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
It would be a more accurate comparison if the sportsman in question was able to choose his own rate of pay that need not bear any resemblance to his performance.

CEO's don't determine their own pay... That is determined by the Board of Directors... and it's usually based on how they have done in the past at other companies.

Hmmmm... sounds like Baseball Free Agency to me. They get paid the current rate for their past performances, and it has nothing to do with how they will perform in the future (when was the last time you saw a sports figure give back money because he sucked)

And just like CEO's many of them have performance clauses written into their contracts. Sounds like they are a lot a like to me

[debeest]

Originally posted by Ming


Let's see... you want to compare the top CEO to an average Sports figure... and you think I'm dumb

What's the point of that comparison. You have to make fair comparisons if you want to actually prove something

Ming, are you deliberately acting stupid? Read your own post!

YOU just compared the top sports figures to the average CEO -- I was only pointing out what a stupid comparison that was! And pointing out that the difference is dramatically greater in the other direction.