Qaeda Leader Beheads U.S. Civilian in Iraq

[The Mad Monk]

I don't hate Iraqis.

I don't hate muslims.

I don't hate arabs.

All I want to do right this minute, is pinpoint where these ******** are, and, oh I don't know, glaze everything in 2-3 klicks.

Is that so wrong?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
No it's not. Militia training in third world countries include biting into living animals to get into the "stuff". There are so many examples like this. Training in the West doesn't go that far, but the atrocities of the battlefield can really "change" someone. What Americans did is not an isolated case, even within modern Western armies of the liberal democratic countries.

Bush hasn't messed up the economy that badly

[DinoDoc]

It's kind of wasteful. Why not shoot them?

[Sava]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I don't hate Iraqis.

I don't hate muslims.

I don't hate arabs.

All I want to do right this minute, is pinpoint where these ******** are, and, oh I don't know, glaze everything in 2-3 klicks.

Is that so wrong?

Yes... because irrational emotional actions are reckless and will end up hurting innocents. I'd much rather have a tactful, intelligent and calculated response. And once we get Al-Zarqawi, you can stick pins in his ballsack.

[The Mad Monk]

I'll agree with you...later.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by oedo

This is exactly the way al Qaeda wants us to think and wants us to act: They're trying to manipulate the Yanks and the Euros into behaving badly enough that they can perform some de facto genocide in "self defense" on us.
You know how this game works, nonetheless you decided to play it.

I see this time and time again, and it's patently false. Al Quaeda does not want us to carpet bomb and/or nuke the Mideast. They want to rule it (and in the end, the world).

Not that nukes and carpet bombing are a good idea, it's just ridiculous to assert that AQ wants us to do it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by PLATO
Folks, You still don't get it. Where is a Sudanese, Congolese, or Ugandan proposing death to all who do not believe in their beliefs?

Sudan
Uganda
The thread I opened about Congo is in the archive (unfindable with the search function), but showed a glimpse on the impending tribal genocide going on there.
And I'm not even talking of Liberia, which was barely mentioned in the news until Charles Taylor became threatened at last. The first time I read about civil war in Liberia is probably the only time I cried on my newspaper.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Kucinich
Not that nukes and carpet bombing are a good idea, it's just ridiculous to assert that AQ wants us to do it.

But if we nuke or carpet bomb cities... don't you think the ENTIRE Muslim world will flock to the extremists' viewpoint?

They wan't their extremist agenda to become the mainstream Islamist agenda. It's a shame you fail to understand this.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Irrelevent. They were a terrorist group.

No, it is relevent. The problem is not terrorism per se, it is murder. The Weathermen made a conscious decision not to kill people, to do what they could to avoid it (this was after three of them blew themselves up during a plan to attack a military dance). They said to themselves that at the point when they can make the decision to murder other people, they've given up their ideals. That is very different from most organizations whose goal is specifically to kill people.

By and large, American leftists have been very relectutant to kill, and those that have were generally seriously unhinged. On the other hand, American rightists have been more than willing to kill. The history of terrorism in the U.S. is, by and large, a history of right-wing fanaticism, interested in terrorizing people to keep them in their place. From the KKK to Timothy McVeigh, there is an ubroken line of right-wing, Christian fanatics, who do not value the lives of those to whom they are opposed.

They don't come out of nowhere, but out of an envirinment, especially prevalent in the South and West, that only whites should have rights, that only Christians should have rights, that only Protestants should have rights, that the government is the enemy, etc. In many parts of the country, these are "normal" values.

Just as PLATO blames Arab and Islamic cultures for the actions of AlQaeda, I blame th American South for the Klan, the Aryan Nations, the Brotherhood, and the Militias. If we're going to be consistent in our assault on evil cultures, it would be pretty easy to start here at home.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava
But if we nuke or carpet bomb cities... don't you think the ENTIRE Muslim world will flock to the extremists' viewpoint?

The extremists (or at least their leaders) would most likely be dead, which makes it a moot point. The leaders of the extremists (not the actual people who execute the attacks) don't want to die.

Moreover, a lot of the Muslim world would be dead, too, so they can't exactly "flock".

They wan't their extremist agenda to become the mainstream Islamist agenda. It's a shame you fail to understand this.

It can't become the mainstream Islamist agenda if there is no mainstream Islamist agenda due to their no longer being any practitioners of Islam

[Sava]

oh my god... on the democratic undergroud, they are saying Berg was killed by black ops to get more support for the war...

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by PLATO
Folks, You still don't get it. Where is a Sudanese, Congolese, or Ugandan proposing death to all who do not believe in their beliefs? Where else is hatred for the west and terrorist tactics taught with the power of religion behind it? Where else do entire regions of governments provide back room support for these methods?

Zarqawi is a Jordanian, so should we consider the King of Jordan, the nation, and all the Jordanian people enemies of the US?

I'm as much of a "decisive confrontationist" type as anybody when it comes to radical Islam, but methods mean a lot here. It's not going to do us long-term good to act as al Qaeda recruiters ourselves by taking a "nuke the ****ing ragheads, they're all the same" approach to a movement which involves a small number of people (a few thousand at most) out of over a billion moslems.

As far as governments go, instead of worrying too much about theirs, why not worry a bit more about ours? As in, why do we kiss so much Saudi ass? Besides that trillion or so in our investment markets, and their ability to step on the global economy's throat by playing with oil production, that is. We collaborate with a known enemy for economic reasons, and there is simply no dismissing the duplicity and complicity of the Saudi government, nor our lack of interest in confronting them in any way. Iraq hasn't increased our leverage against the Saudis, if anything, it has decreased it, as they see we're stretched thin. Just think, when you're buying gas this summer, who is the real enemy and what are we doing about it?

The problem is societal. This is what is breeding people capable of doing these kinds of things while invoking God's name. This is what is causing people to fly airplanes into buildings. This is what is causing children to strap bombs on themselves.

And infidel foreign invaders moving in to "educate" them isn't going to help.

The leaders who foster this and the people who follow them must be stopped. If they will not listen to reason then they must be destroyed.

We can disrupt and destroy and limit most of them most of the time, but this is largely a permanent problem.

If not, the problem will continue to widen...the atrocities will continue to grow. And...yours and my very way of life will change. And not for the better.

Sorry, but the occasional beheading of some poor guy randomly kidnapped from the streets of one of their countries is a hell of a lot different from them dealing mass carnage within the US or western allies. Spain was hit hard, but by and large, the Spanish government probably felt beforehand (like we seemed to before 9/11) that they weren't a priority target at home.

You can't prevent everyone, everywhere, from doing anything ever. You have to allocate resources intelligently - we're already seeing budget cuts and security relaxation in DHS and it's subordinate agencies, as a result of our deficits and the cost of Iraq.

[Sava]

As far as governments go, instead of worrying too much about theirs, why not worry a bit more about ours? As in, why do we kiss so much Saudi ass? Besides that trillion or so in our investment markets, and their ability to step on the global economy's throat by playing with oil production, that is. We collaborate with a known enemy for economic reasons, and there is simply no dismissing the duplicity and complicity of the Saudi government, nor our lack of interest in confronting them in any way. Iraq hasn't increased our leverage against the Saudis, if anything, it has decreased it, as they see we're stretched thin. Just think, when you're buying gas this summer, who is the real enemy and what are we doing about it?

well put

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
oh my god... on the democratic undergroud, they are saying Berg was killed by black ops to get more support for the war...

Yeah, and the Zionists organized the holocaust, and Elvis is on a UFO with Amelia Earheart, and the Illuminati rule the earth. Are you surprised there is no limit to human stupidity and paranoia?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
well put

Don't agree with me, it's bad form.